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#1 User is offline   pimp_vince Icon

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Posted 20 August 2004 - 12:22 AM

i know everything there is to know about how and why you get fret buzz. it seems like fret buzz but it only happens on certain notes, and by "certain notes" i don't mean random frets, i mean this buzz responds to a certain frequency.

like it'll buzz on high E 8th fret, B 11th fret, G 15th fret, etc... so it's obviously not normal fret buzz. i've checked all my tuners and all of the exterior like the bridge, nut, saddle, tuners, strap buttons, the individual frets, adjusted the action, changed strings, etc...

my best guess is that something's loose inside the guitar... any parts that could rattle? the only way i know i can fix this is if someone else had this problem.

it is very high humidity out where i am at the moment (right on the atlantic... and i mean i could walk 20 feet, grab a boat and sail to france.) so i'm next to open water and fog is no strange occurrence, so maybe something came unglued, or expanded and created a gap.

(my money is on dadfad knowing exactly what my problem is) laugh.gif
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#2 User is offline   goldrush Icon

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Posted 20 August 2004 - 09:32 AM

If you've checked all those things and couldn't find anything wrong it's probably intonation/action. Higher or lower than normal humidity can create changes in the wood which can affect action and intonation. The only other possibility would be the way you pluck those individual notes (too hard? too far away from the fret? pluck out instead of down?)

However, we will all await DADFAD's response.....

This post has been edited by goldrush: 20 August 2004 - 09:34 AM

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#3 User is offline   dadfad Icon

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Posted 20 August 2004 - 10:38 AM

QUOTE (goldrush @ Aug 20 2004, 10:32 AM)
If you've checked all those things and couldn't find anything wrong it's probably intonation/action. Higher or lower than normal humidity can create changes in the wood which can affect action and intonation. The only other possibility would be the way you pluck those individual notes (too hard? too far away from the fret? pluck out instead of down?)

However, we will all await DADFAD's response.....

It might be something other than fret buzz. Some other "moving part". A loose truss-rod cover, bushing on a tuner-key, the string inside the guitar under your saddle vibrating against the under-side or saddle-brace. Check everything you possibly can to see if it moves. Here's the most baffling one I ever had. A rattle I couldn't find (only in some Gs or it's fifth, D)... I checked everything... all the stuff above, I had masking tape on 90 % of the damn guitar inside and out. Braces, kerf, etc, etc. No luck. A guy I know at Gibson, their company "historian", said he'd heard of rare cases of a vibrating truss-rod inside the neck. I checked it out with a stethoscope and that seemed to be it! The solution (shudder) remove the fretboard and expand the truss-rod cavity around the rod. Replace the fret-board, re-fret and re-finish. Not an easy task, and not something I really wanted to do to a '49 J-45 in pretty nice original condition. Then I got an idea. I took a can of that expanding foam crap you use for insulation. I made a tiny little nozzle from the red-thingy you get like with a can of WD-40 and made it fit the foam-nozzle. I listened to where the buzz sounded like it was coming from generally with a stethoscope. I took the nearest fret-dot (ninth fret) and cracked it with a center punch. I took a small drill bit and rotated it by hand through the dot-hole until I felt it break through into the truss-rod cavity. I stuck the little red-tube in and filled it as full as I could with the expanding crap. I figured what have I got to lose? Worst case is I have to do what I'd have to do anyway. Remove the fret-board and clean it out, etc, etc. So I squirted the stuff in, and then replaced the fret-dot. It worked (three-and a half years ago and counting). Rattle gone, no tonal changes. My buddy at Gibson thought I was crazy! What can I say! Hopefully it'll last until I'm some dead-guy and some luthier-of-the-future will scratch his head and wonder what the hell all this white sh!t is in here. laugh.gif

Anyway, if it isn't a fret. It's gotta be something moving, right?. If you're lucky, it's something outside you can find. It's a pain loosening your stings over and over and putting your hand in there wiggling bracings and all of that. Taping things down to eliminate them from the possibilities, etc. A stethoscope, like the cheap ones you might steal....er...I mean... find... around a hospital or exam-room, or even buy at a good drug store, can come in handy too when you're trying to find the general area. Good luck. I feel your frustration. (I have one now too in the not-too-distant-future. On a 1971 Gibson J-40. Not a great guitar, but a decent one. I don't play it often, but sooner or later (because it's getting slightly more noticeable) I'm gonna have to go through all of this again, and I've already checked the "easy stuff". (But I'll worry about it then! laugh.gif ) Anyway, those are a few possibilities. Hopefully it's something simple.
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#4 User is offline   goldrush Icon

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Posted 20 August 2004 - 11:12 AM

DADFAD--

If it was a loose truss rod, truss rod cover plate, or bushing on a head wouldn't it rattle all the time? Or could certain frequencies cause rattles when others don't?Vince made it sound to me like it was only certain notes on certain parts of the fretboard. That, coupled with abnormal humidity on the east coast (hurricanes, etc.), seems to point to an intonation/action problem.
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#5 User is offline   jshrel24 Icon

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Posted 20 August 2004 - 11:20 AM

Troy had this problem i think. Where when he would play he would get a buzz or a vibration from like the top of his guitar like around his soundhole.
Is that anything close to what ur tlaking about ?
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#6 User is offline   dadfad Icon

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Posted 20 August 2004 - 11:41 AM

Mine only did it in some Gs, or occassionally Ds. The cover or a bushing would be more likely to rattle all the time (so would the rod probably you'd think but it didn't, just some Gs and Ds, especially the open G-3rd string, and only when in (or close to) G). You're right about the humidity probably having something to do with it. An expansion of some kind, maybe a slight glue-softening. And of course it can definately effect the action/intonation. I got the (possibly wrong) impression from his question that the buzz wasn't from the frets, just [i]like[/] a fret buzz when he fretted certain areas. If it is the frets, the common move-up-the-board-till-it-stops method should find it. Sometimes a cheap continuity-tester clipped to the string on the nut-side of the fretting-finger and checked against the individual frets can help find it. If I thought it was the humidity (a temporary condition), and it is a true fret buzz. I'd probably shim the saddle a few thou. A tiny strip of brass foil or several layers of aluminum foil under the saddle. If that fixed it, you'd know what it definately was. And then decide to just leave the temporary-fix or re-set it up. For a pure-isolation check, you can even just shim the offending string temporarily to see if that makes it go away before you bother shimming the saddle. I hate those elusive problems. Life's too short!


Oh, and if you have the chance, don't forget about Mary's show. I think you'd enjoy it. I just got something from her in the mail a couple of minutes ago. She's a nice person, and a fine guitarist.
Un-plugged is not the same as
never-was-plugged-in-to-begin-with.

John Jackson -My Teacher and My Old Friend

When the roll is called up yonder he'll be there
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#7 User is offline   goldrush Icon

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Posted 20 August 2004 - 12:30 PM

Thorough answer as always John! It's hard to diagnose this problem without getting your hands on the guitar, but you've given a great foundation to at least find out what the problem isn't.

As for Mary's show we are still looking for a babysitter, but we intend to go tonight (our anniversary was yesterday so we both want to get out and do something apart from the kiddos). If I get to talk to her can I mention your name?

This post has been edited by goldrush: 20 August 2004 - 12:31 PM

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#8 User is offline   dadfad Icon

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Posted 20 August 2004 - 01:39 PM

QUOTE (goldrush @ Aug 20 2004, 01:30 PM)
Thorough answer as always John! It's hard to diagnose this problem without getting your hands on the guitar, but you've given a great foundation to at least find out what the problem isn't.

As for Mary's show we are still looking for a babysitter, but we intend to go tonight (our anniversary was yesterday so we both want to get out and do something apart from the kiddos). If I get to talk to her can I mention your name?

Sure. Hope it works so that you can go. (And happy anniversary. Ours is next weekend.)
Un-plugged is not the same as
never-was-plugged-in-to-begin-with.

John Jackson -My Teacher and My Old Friend

When the roll is called up yonder he'll be there
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#9 User is offline   pimp_vince Icon

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Posted 21 August 2004 - 08:59 PM

as funny as this sounds i might have been too vague.

so here's what i've gotten from further testing. it seems to be coming from BEHIND my finger... so it's less audible but still pisses you off (get the idea?). also, it seems to get worse when i add vibrato. and it SOUNDS like a loose bushing, but it sounds very weak and dampened and just incase it was i did check all six tuners.... notta.

so i guess this'll stay up in the air for a while. i'm sure it won't affect the sound for being miked as i don't normally mic the fretboard. it just annoys me when i'm practicing on my own.
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