[Renevator]

I’ve recently started guitar lessons (finally after years having one kicking around I’ve decided to take it seriously). Trouble is, in my daft wisdom, the guitar I bought years ago was a 12 String Epiphone Acoustic.
Needless to say, I’m finding stuff tricky on 12 strings. (Having just put a new full set on after leaving it with 6 for years – which I’m assumimg isn’t a good idea anyway).
So, I’d like to ask the wise & knowledgeable here, am I hindering my learning by struggling with the 12 string? and would I progress better with a 6 string?
The Epiphone isn’t a bad guitar, but I’m thinking that if I was to buy say a £300 ish Freshman/Takamine or similar, I’d progress much quicker. Or am I fooling myself, and should just accept that learning is tough – period.
Any advice would be well appreciated.

Great site by the way – I’ve only just started browsing but there looks like a huge wealth of usefull stuff here.

Cheers

Rene

[billy16]

Yeah, save the 12 string for later and learn on a steel string 6 string.

Learning is hard, but some guitars are easier in ways, action, wood quality ( better sound).

I've found that one becomes addicted to coated strings. They're nice, easy switching, last a while, but when you go back to uncoated ( if you do ) it's a bit hard on the fingers.

[okiejohn]

If your 12 string is in good condition, keep it. You will wish you did, if you don't. Does that make sense ? Haha

It might be a bit easier in the beginning to learn on a six string, but, I do know a fella that started with a 12, and he did alright.

New strings would be in order if it's not had any in a while, and I suppose you already know to tune it down a step or two.

[dadfad]

Yeah, keep the 12, but learn on a 6-string (you might solve both problems by just putting six strings on your 12. The neck is slightly wider on most 12s but not tremendously). Don't compound the problems of fretting cleanly and solidly, keeping in tune, etc that all beginners have by learning on a 12-string, which has those problems built into it for even more experienced guitarists.

[SmoothD]

If your 12 string is in good condition, keep it. You will wish you did, if you don't. Does that make sense ? Haha

It might be a bit easier in the beginning to learn on a six string, but, I do know a fella that started with a 12, and he did alright.

New strings would be in order if it's not had any in a while, and I suppose you already know to tune it down a step or two.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

These guys are right. If you learn with the six you'll be able to play the 12 before you know it and you'll appreciate the sweet sound that she'll make for ya!

Good luck!

[Renevator]

Thanks for the advice guys. I wasn't intending getting rid of the 12 - kinda fond of it, and besides, don't think it'd be worthwhile financially doing so. You're right about the difficulties of fretting cleanly Dadfad - I really struggle with bar chords, but I know this needs practice regardless. I suppose if I'm to get a 6, I now need to spend hours & hours hanging around guitar shops - it's a tough life but what the heck :-).
Many thanks again for your input all.

Rene

[sunday_girl]

Hi everyone,
I'm looking for some advice on twelve strings, been playing nearly three years now in august.
I am thinking of getting hold of an old one and prehaps doing some simple work on it. make sure the neck is in good condition and the bodywork isnt too damaged and prehaps put new tuners and bridge on it.
What I was wondering has anyone any idea's on makes and models to look out for that had good quality and might have lasted some time.
I dont expect to get a taylor or gibson, but some other lesser known make that had everything but the big name and price.
I really want to get one but dont want to pay big money for one.
So any advice for the crazy lady.

Am going to look around the local auctions and free ad newspapers.
so will keep everyone posted on how i get on and if i do ok.

Rachel

ps hope I'm not going over my head here so let me know if its possible.

[okiejohn]

Try to find a Framus, built like a tank. Dadfad can fill in the details.

Ibanez Artist and Concords might be something to look for, make sure the topwood isn't warped from stress at the bridge.

[sunday_girl]

thanks okiejohn,
I was hoping you or dadfad would come on you both seem to love acoustic and give wonderful advice.
I've only tried to play one once and that was way back in the beginings of learning and am learning the capoed part of Hotel California and cant get it to sound right on a 6 string.
I have an eko ranger and was hoping to get something of that age they built them good back then.
I will really check out the frettboard is that what you were meaning didnt think about that. but thanks again.
Hope i can come to you for more advice if i need to
thanks again

Rachel

[sunday_girl]

okiejohn,
Ive just found two twelve strings on ebay framus make circa 1965 and 69 they look great and at such a low price.
trouble is that they are both in germany.
well thanks again

Rachel

[okiejohn]

Rachel:

The top wood that might be warped is at, or behind the bridge. The strings pull up on the top wood, just the way acoustics are designed. With a six string there's not as much pressure pulling up on the top and the wood seldom warps.

Some folks will tune a 12 string to the same pitch as you would tune a six string. That puts alot of stress on the top and causes the wood to bulge upward at the bridge or behind the bridge. I have also seen 12 strings with some serious cracks behind the bridge from the stress.

That is why it's best to tune a 12 string down a step or three.

Those Framus guitars were made in Germany or there abouts, seems they went out of business in the 70's, they couldn't compete with the Japanese, labor and materials went into those Framus guitars.

And thank you very much for comparing me to Dadfad, he might not get a kick out of that, for he is truly a master....me, I'm an imposter.

[dadfad]

Ha! We're both old farts just doin' the best we can!

Oke, gave some good advice, Rachel. I have an old Framus my wife got for damn near nothing at a rummage-sale. I fixed it up a little (not much work at all really, mostly cleaned up and a couple of simple adjustments)) and it made a pretty nice 12-string. Be warned, all (any I've ever played) are a pain to keep in tune. You have to baby them and finger them firmly, but not too hard (or the fact that you're pushing two different guages of string with the same finger will make one or the other sound out-of-tune.) A love-hate relationship! However, the reward for those magic-moments when they are actually working right makes it worth it all. I'd be a little careful of buying one you can't try out first, but if the price is right, I might take a chance anyway. In a worst-case scenario (say the action is way-high or something), once you learn a little technique to use, a 12-string tuned to a nice low open-tuning like open C or B (like a low open-D), or open F or E (like a low open-G) and played with a slide just sings and rumbles through you. Really a great sound.

I've posted them before, but here are a couple of 12-string guitar tunes to check out....

A 12-string slide tune...

Another not with a slide....

And one more....