[Cloodie]

Looking for a simple fingerstyle blues to introduce me to the style. Any suggestions?

[spacecrumbs]

Wait for dadfad, I'm sure he'll have something good.

[ibanez6]

I found a good place to start was this site.

http://www.12bar.de/intro.htm

Beg, borrow or steal the cd of clapton unplugged, follow the above web page and b4 you know it you'll be playing like Eric (....well, nearly)

[tubescream8]

One of my favorites is Etta Baker. Some other main fingerstlye blues guitarist are guys like Blind Blake, Blind Boy Fuller, and John Jackson. Like someone else said, wait for dadfad. He's studied with John Jackson and if I remember right Skip James. He can really help you out, hes had so much great experience and has an incredible skill with the style. So wait for dadfad.

[grzegorz_panek]

Robert Johnson. Sweet Home Chicago, etc. Good place to start.


Skip James to experiment with alternate bass. There's his Hard Time Killing Floor tabbed by Dadfad.

Mississippi John Hurt to master alternate bass.

Blind Blake

[Cloodie]

Thanks for the help guys. I see Dadfad getting a mention, is he a wise old sage who lives on a mountain top?

[RICH.J]

I've mentioned them on here before, but the books by Woody Mann are really excellent for learning some fingerstyle blues. His Art of Acoustic Blues Guitar series really is top notch, I think they are anyway. Well worth picking up one or two maybe. Here's the link to his site if you want it Woody Mann The Basics and Fretboard Logic are good to start with.

Hope maybe that helps...

[dadfad]

Thanks for the help guys. I see Dadfad getting a mention, is he a wise old sage who lives on a mountain top?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Nope! I'm afraid only the "old" part is accurate! The guys above have mentioned some great tunes and artists. If you're just getting into fingerstyle, Robert Johnson might be a good place to start because many of his tunes are... pretty straight forward. Not as much alternating-bass with the thumb, etc. Which is a very important thing to learn if you really want to get into these styles. The use of the thumb as an almost totally independent part of your playing. As if you had a second guitarist accompanying you who only played the bass-lines. You need to develop your thumb-skills so that it becomes totally second-nature, with little or no thought given as you use it, most of your skill and concentration going into your higher strings' melody-lines or chord-fragment runs, etc. There's a lot of good information posted on this site, in this Acoustic Forum and other forums, by me and others. I have parts of a few saved (which I'll post below) and there are LOTS of others well worth looking for. As well as tabs that I and others have done. There are some great blues fingerstylists in this forum, so you've definately come to the right place. And welcome.

CODE

Finger-picking Styles

I'll try to briefly define them. It's not that easy because there are always
exceptions, mixtures of styles within tunes, etc. But here goes:

[b]Arpeggiated Strumming[/b] is simple slow strumming through the chord,
usually with the thumb, but other notes within the chord can be added with
the other fingers, which would make it similar to pattern-picking but
with no pattern.

[b]Melodic Note [/b] is where specific notes, usually within a melody line,
are the target notes. Stairway to Heaven might be a good example of this.

[b]Pattern Picking[/b]is where a relatively defined order of finger-to-string
is closely followed, which may or may not vary through chord changes.
Dust In The Wind is a good example of this style of picking.

[b]Travis Picking[/b] is playing a thumb bass note followed by a finger
treble note, and then a thumb-finger sequence again, usually in a pattern
that alternates between more than one bass/treble sequence, like say in
a 320033 G-chord 6-2-4-1. The term "Travis Picking" was sort of misnomer
coined by folk artists in the fifties trying to describe this method of
picking (frequently used by Mississippi John Hurt) as the way Merle Travis
played, who actually played in more of an Alternating Bass style for
the most part.

[b]Alternating Bass[/b] is probably the most difficult to master. It's
based for the most part on your thumb playing an alternating bass-line,
like on 320033 G-chord, 6-4 6-4. As this bass-line is played, the other
finger(s) play treble notes, runs or chord-fragments on the other strings.
They may or may not be exactly on or evenly between the beats of the
bass-line. If they are it's purely coincidental, because the treble-work
is played in a manner that is totally separated from the rhythm of the
thumb (called syncopation). This is the style that most closely resembles
two guitars playing as a duet. This style is also commonly using a
"double-alternating" pattern where the thumb goes between two separate
pairs, like on G-320033, 6-4 5-3, or 6-4 5-4 along with the treble work
being played as the bass rhythm goes on. This is the style used by the
great fingerstyle masters like Blind Blake, John Jackson, Tommy Johnson,
etc. It can be made even more complex (amazingly complex really) by playing
in both directions with the fingers and thumb. In it's simplest form, it
can be very similar to Travis Picking.

[b]Variations[/b] might include the Texas thumb-drone styles of Mance Lipscomb
or Lightnin' Hopkins, clawhammer picking (originally an old mountain banjo
style which relies on the thumb and back-picking with the fingers, the backs
of the nails striking the strings.

So briefly that sort of describes them. They're frequently mixed, even within
the same tune. Or parts of one picking-style mixed with another, etc. A fairly
contemporary tune that incorporates several of these styles very distinctly
is "Embryonic Journey", a Jorma Kaukonen tune originally done by Jefferson
Airplane and later Hot Tuna. Pattern-picking, melodic-note, alternating-thumb
with hammer-ons, and Travis-picking (in a prettty dramatic D-thru-G-thru-A-to-D
bass-run in the Travis picking style) are all used within this tune. It's not
an extremely difficult tune (as compared to say Blind Blake, but no "piece of
cake" either) but is a good example of styles.

So hopefully this will help define the basic styles of fingerpicking. There
are others and many combinations and hybrids. It could be the subject of a
book instead of a post, but I hope this helps.

CODE

Alternating Bass

Yes, but even the easiest tunes aren't that easy until you get the hang of it a bit. When I first was learning years ago from an old guitarist named John Jackson (the person in my sig picture). He told me to start learning like this. Take a simple chord, like say a G (320003 or 320033). Just start playing back and forth with my thumb..6-4 6-4 6-4....in a nice slow rhythm of 1-2 1-2 1-2 1-2 ( or 1-2-3-4 if you prefer, same thing). Just do that for extended periods of time. Even while watching TV or carrying on a conversation or something. He said that being able to concentrate on something else (like the TV or a conversation) would make it so that your thumb will work with virtually no in-put from your brain. Which is what you want......completely second nature without a thought about it. As you get to where you can do that, start adding a simple treble note on a higher string like the 1 or 2 in there picked by your index finger, without breaking that continual thumb-rhythm as you do. Build that occassional treble note into several, and then a very simple treble-line, like by simply lifting your finger on and off the 1-string. Then after you've achieved a little degree of ability, switch to another chord in a simple progression (which might be the C-chord X32010, or 332010, alternating the 5-4 or the 6-5, or 6-4, 5-3... whichever sounds best to you). Then move on to say the D X00232, etc. Play a very simple 3-chord tune all the way through doing nothing but the alternating thumb bass notes. Like Blowin' In The Wind or Red River Valley....a simple 3-chord progression. And then in other keys, like A (using A, D and E chords). Work with them, and then see how many little treble-melody notes you can add as you do it. At first you'll find most of your added treble-notes will probably be right on the beat with a 1 or 2 bass note, more like a pinch than a true independently-played treble note, but soon you'll be adding them between the alternating bass notes as well. On a 1-[i]and[/i]-2, they'll be on the "and". Simple added treble-notes will turn into a simple melody. And then more complex treble-runs. As you get going, a great old fingerstyle tune to work with is Elizebeth Cotten's old "Freight Train" (she played a very simple yet rhythmically perfect alternating-bass style). Mississippi John Hurt is another one, not that complex but perfect (like his tunes "Louis Collins" or "Let the Mermaids Play With Me" and many others). His stuff is more difficult than Elizebeth Cotten's but not tremendously. The most difficult is probably the old masters like Blind Blake, John Jackson, Lonnie Johnson, Bo Carter...guys like that who used not only extremely syncopated-treble lines and runs, but also alternating-brushes, staggered and double-alternations and even (in the case of Blind Blake and John Jackson) alternations that were actually back-picked with the thumb moving in both directions, both up and down. Anyway, I hope all of that helps a little to get you started. The difference between playing a very simple tune just using strumming techniques as opposed to playing it alternating-bass style is tremendous. With strumming you sound like just another guitarist, with the alternating bass style you sound like a [i]real[/i] guitarist who knows his instrument.

**********************

[QUOTE=Velvet Shadows,Jun 3 2004, 09:01 AM] thanks a lot dadfad i get how these bass lines work now i just gotta practice them some more :D ,

just a couple more questions

when learning to add in treble notes would it help me keep the rythem better if i used a metronome?,
and am i correct in thinking when using this technique the D,A,E strings should always be played with the thumb and the E,B,G strings with the fingers? [/QUOTE]
If you're used to working with a metronome it may help. I used tapping my foot (I could slow down or speed up without having to physically change or re-set anything, yet it still kept my rhythm consistant). The tap being the 1 or the 2, the up-motion being the "and" between them.

As far as the E,A,D with the thumb and the G,B,e with the finger......that's sort of a rule, but it's a rule-made-to-be-broken sort of. As you progress you'll find a melody line or treble-run that might extend a bit lower (pitch-wise), maybe to the fourth string (or more) that will be played by a finger. Also, you'll find that sometimes you'll want to alternate a bass-note that's higher (pitch-wise), maybe using the 3-string, especially when you get to double-alternations (which isn't really that hard once you can single-alternate reasonably well. It's just a matter of using two pairs of alternating notes instead of a single pair....like in a G-chord 320003 playing 6-4 5-3 6-4 5-3.... etc. You'll find as your skill-level increases that there will be times when your finger is actually picking higher than your thumb (higher in the physical sense of closer to your head) which can be done by tilting your hand back, thumb-down/fingers-up sort of. It's not something done often in a tune (or at all in most tunes), but does happen. Occasionally part of the treble-line will be on a string also used for the alternating bass, where you finger a note differently and play it with a finger between beats for that note of the run, and then quickly go back to the alternation fingering and play it with your thumb. Sometimes you'll "break rhythm" and do an extended treble run from high-to-low (or vice-versa), etc. This is stuff that is "down the road" a bit in playing alternating-fingerstyle. So generally, yes... the thumb is usually on the E,A,D (and sometimes G ) strings, the finger(s) playing on the e,B,G strings.

*********************************

[QUOTE=wannalearn01,Jun 3 2004, 09:10 AM] [QUOTE=Velvet Shadows,Jun 3 2004, 08:01 AM] thanks a lot dadfad i get how these bass lines work now i just gotta practice them some more :D ,

just a couple more questions

when learning to add in treble notes would it help me keep the rythem better if i used a metronome?,
and am i correct in thinking when using this technique the D,A,E strings should always be played with the thumb and the E,B,G strings with the fingers? [/QUOTE]
About the bassline....you need to be able to do it without thinking, a metronome could help, but really you need to be able to completely separate your thumb motion, from all the other fingers. It takes time like Dadfad said, you can't rush it, b.c if you rush it, your just going slow yourself down when you add the treble notes.

As for what fingers, standard finger picking fingers are:

E-Thumb
A-Thumb
D-Thumb
G-Pointer
B-Middle
E-Ring

But those are just suggestions. I have seen people use there pinky for the high e a lot...it all depends on what you playing, how fast, and your own personal technique.

T^roy [/QUOTE]
Troy is right. Some use all fingers, some use just a couple. (Some even just a single finger with amazing complexity, like the Rev. Gary Davis. A friend of mine who studied with him for many years asked him once why he didn't use more fingers to play. He said "Cuz I ain't needed to yet." :lol: ). I generally use three, the majority of the work with the index (because it has a stronger pull to it), the middle-finger where it's just easyier to use two fingers than one, and my ring-finger only when I want to play something similar to a trill-like sequence. (My pinkie is usually on the pick-guard, where God intended it to be! :lol: ).


And, like he mentioned, Troy has a good topic about playing "Classical Gas" in the Acoustic Forum with input from several others.

CODE

Picking styles

[QUOTE]There are several styles of alternate finger-picking. The most common and probably easiest is pattern picking, where generally your fingers alternate in a pre-set pattern as you move through the chords of a progession with little change in the pattern, maybe moving up or down a string, etc. Most classical would probably fall into this, a tune like Dust in the Wind is another good example. Another kind of picking is what's often called Travis-picking (which is actually a mis-nomer as it isn't the style Merle Travis actually used). It's mainly a constant bass pattern played with the thumb where treble notes, frequently a melody line, is played as an acompanyment alternating between or on the beats of the bass-line. Piedmont style blues is generally this style. Like John Hurt or Elizebeth Cotton.

Probably the next step would be what's often called alternating-bass or alternating thumb bass, which is similar to Travis-picking, but the treble notes are played rhythmically in a totally independent way from the bass-line, as if the fretboard is split down the middle the long way, with the thumb and fingers playing independently of each other. Some treble notes may be on the beat, between the beat, just before, or after...whatever. This is often called syncopation, the mixing of independent rhythms (this is what Merle used generally, as did Blind Boy Fuller, Bowling Green John Cephas, Big Bill Broonzy, etc). The step beyond, although closely related, is where the thumb as it plays independently and generally follows a bass-line, also freely moves over both sides of the board which may change bass-lines or add treble notes, even notes back-picked by the thumb at times. This was the style generally used by artists like Blind Blake, Bo Carter, Lonnie Johnson or John Jackson.

Frequently in tunes a combination of these styles might be used as the tune moves through different passages. There are many variations on all these styles and different approaches to each (an example might be "frailing" where treble notes are played with the backs of the nail for a more distinct melody line, its also a common banjo-style of picking old-time music). So there are lots of variations, but that's probably a good way to break it down into several general styles.  



 
dadfad Posted: Aug 27 2003, 08:09 AM


[QUOTE][QUOTE]Are you talking about alternate picking with a pick or alternate fingerpicking? They are both very different from each other.[/QUOTE]

could someone teach me anlternate fingerpicking? and also if theres any excersises to make work fingerpicking better cause all i can use is my thumb index and middle and rarely my ring.... im trying to learn some classical songs for this... thnx guys[/QUOTE]

This is an exercise that was told to me by John Jackson about thirty-years ago that worked for me to break into the alternating thumb styles. Take a simple open chord, like E or G for example and hold it. Now, using your thumb only, repetetively and rhythmically move back and forth between two strings (6 and 4 are best to start). Play this bass-line over and over. Play it for an hour, play it while you watch television and play it while you carry on a conversation. He emphasized doing it while you were also doing something else (like TV or conversation). Do it until you no longer think about it at all as you do it. Because this is what you really want....where it no longer requires any brain-power to do, totally second nature. As you become able to do this, while holding that simple chord, ocassionally pluck a treble string with your index finger as your thumb works. Just use one finger as you're learning. Do it on several strings, one at a time (remember, your thumb is always moving back and forth). As it becomes easier, try simple melody lines by simply removing and replacing a finger on the treble string. For example, if you're holding a G-chord 320003 or 320033, you can play little lines on the 1,2 and 3 just by raising and replacing fingers from open to the 3rd fret back and forth. You'll notice as you do this in the beginning, that you'll tend to pick a treble note simultaneously with one beat or the other of the thumb's bass line on the 4 and 6 (almost like a pinch, but not REALLY a pinch, because it's not thought of that way as you do it. It just happens both the thumb and finger are picking at the same time). This is common in the beginning. When this becomes a no-brainer (like just the thumb work did) try adding some of those treble notes between the bass-beats as well, in sort of a "boom-chukka-boom-chukka" rhythm. When this is easy, change into another chord in a simple progression, like from G to C, or from E to A. You might want to change the alternation of the bass (especially on the C) to the 3 and 5 strings. Do the same with the next chord in the simple progression (which probably would be the D in G,C,D or the B in E,A,. Practice just these simple alternations moving through progressions. When this becomes very easy, almost without thought, then you can move into double-bass alternation. For example, on the G-chord your thumb might play 6-4-5-3-6-4-5-3 or 6-4-5-4-6-4-5-4. Also try moving slightly outside the major-chord with your treble notes, maybe into G7 or E7 as part of your treble melody line. Get familiar with this. Dropped-D is excellent for this because it allows you to move your treble-lines up the neck without changing the bass-line (which is actually what dropped-D was originally concieved for over a century ago, as opposed to one-finger barre-chords like it's often used for nowadays). Doing all of this will get you solidly into the alternating styles. It isn't something you learn in a few hours, or a week, or even a month. As it becomes easier, you might want to add a finger or fingers (Rev. Gary Davis never used more than his thumb and one finger, John Jackson and Blind Blake used three.)

The syncopation, playing with a totally separated approach mentally to bass and treble, takes a while, sometimes years, to be good at it. When playing like this in this manner becomes fairly un-complex to you, that's when you can move on to the rapid chord-voicing changes up and down the neck as you play. This is where a thorough knowledge of instant chord-building becomes important. To be able to play a major chord in five or six places without a thought, very rapidly, or different voicings of chords and chord-fragments, say from major to diminished to 7ths to 9ths over the whole neck in a flowing manner through the appropriate parts of a given progression while using the alternating fingerstyle as you do.

Anyway, I hope that can help you get started. In these styles, the dreaded "P-word" is extremely important. And the start of it all is the monotonous "dum-dum dum-dum dum-dum" back and forth on the bass strings.
[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE]
Try alternating-bass style. When you learn this style well, you'll be able to play most other finger-style pretty fluently. Begin simply. Hold any open chord. Lets say a G (320003). Play a rhythm rhythmically back and forth on the 6 and 4 strings with your thumb. Now, as you get into "the groove", use another finger(s) to play a treble note or two. You'll find you will tend to do this ON a bass beat at first, almost as if you were doing thumb/finger pinches. Try to play a simple melody line (as you maintain that alternating thumb rhythm). For example 32000[b]3[/b], 32000[b]0[/b], 3200[b]3[/b]0, 3200[b]0[/b]3 --always maintaining that steady, even 6/4 string rhythm. Do this with every chord in the progression (sometimes it might be a 5/4 or 5/3 thumb alternation). Eventually (and this isn't something you learn in a day or two) you will be able to mentally separate that thumb-beat from your other fingers. Able to play a melody line on, before, just after, etc the bass beats. Totally independent of them, as if two separate guitarists were playing. This is called "syncopation". When you can do this well, you can do a virtual two-guitar sounding tune, playing your own rhythm as well as whatever treble runs you choose to play over it. You can finger not just a single chord on the neck, but will start thinking in terms of actually holding two different chords (or partial-chords) at once, a different one on each side of the neck. It can be even more complex (double alternating, etc), but this is the basic idea of it. Once you can play like this, actual "finger-patterns" become meaningless. You move BEYOND patterns. You can just play any pattern or improv-ed lines you want at will. Hope this helps.  

(I put a simple treble line in [b]bold[/b] on the 1 and 2 strings)

[/QUOTE]

CODE

The Robert Johnson "A" Lick; also: Sliding A7 Figure

This lick is often called that because it was often used by Johnson,
and usually in the key of A (although sometimes capoed) and in the
key of G as well, although it's extremely versatile and can be used
in any key with almost identical fingering changes. It can be used
as an intro or closing (ei. When You've Got a Good Friend) or as a
turn-around within the tune (ei. Me and the Devil) and was used by
him in others as well, including Love In Vain, etc. Also used by a
number of others in the same form or with slight variations (Lonnie
Johnson, Blind Blake, Blindboy Fuller, etc, etc). It has been used as
the basis of many well-known licks by more modern rock artists as well,
including Led Zepplin and ZZ Top, as well as being a blues-staple both
electrically and acoustically. Anyway.......

The basis for the lick is what old-time bluesmen called "the long A".
This is an A-cord made by barring the second fret, strings 1 through 4,
with the index. The pinkie is then extended to hold the 1-string on
the 5th-fret, making this A-chord X02225. You hold this chord through
the whole riff as you walk down on the 4th-string one fret at a time
with your ring and then middle fingers sequentially.


The lick would look like this (as you hold that long-A chord), pinching
the one and four strings in doublets......

--5---5------5---5------5---5------5---5------5---
--------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------
--2---2------5---5------4---4------3---3------2---
--------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------

This could be used as an ending, or at the beginning or middle of a
tune, as a turn-around into the V Position E-chord.

This example, in the key of G, is even more easily played out of the
open G-chord 320003 because the "Zero Fret" barre is held by the nut.
All you have to finger and play is this........

--3---3------3---3------3---3------3---3------3---
--------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------
--0---0------3---3------2---2------1---1------0---
--------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------


Okay, that's the main idea of the riff. In a classic sense you might
want to exit through the IV-7th into the 7th of the I Position. In the
key of A that would mean going through an E7 chord (022130) and then an
A7 (002223). Doing it like this: Play the riff....

--5---5------5---5------5---5------5---5----(5)--
-------------------------------------------------
-------------------------------------------------
--2---2------5---5------4---4------3---3----(2)--
-------------------------------------------------
-------------------------------------------------

but when you get to the last 2-5 pinch here ^.......



....hammer into the E7 (022130) like this.....

--------0-------0--
------------3------
--0h1-----------0--
--------2----------
-------------------
---0---------------  .........and then resolve on the A7-chord X02223.

That's the classic Robert Johnson end-tag in the Key of A!

Now, moving onto a little fancier variation. For simplicity's sake
I'll use the key of G shape to start with shown above, and again below...

--3---3------3---3------3---3------3---3------3---
--------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------
--0---0------3---3------2---2------1---1------0---
--------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------

All you do is add another finger to the one above, like this.....

--3---3------3---3------3---3------3---3------3---
------------------------1---1------2---2------0---
--------------------------------------------------
--0---0------3---3------2---2------1---1------0---
--------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------

See how much more complex it sounds (it's using partial diminished notes).

This, like the original simpler lick, can also be done from the barred
Long-A position.......

--5---5------5---5------5---5------5---5------5---
------------------------3---3------4---4------2---
--------------------------------------------------
--2---2------5---5------4---4------3---3------2---
--------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------

This might seem a little finger-twisting at first, but it really isn't
that difficult to get used to. Also, some people DO play it holding only
the fingered notes shown removing the barred second-fret. Just be careful
not to hit an un-fretted string if you do it that way. I prefer keeping
the barre intact myself.

Okay, that pretty much covers the lick. Like I said it can be used in any
key by just moving the barre up or down the neck to the appropriate fret
(7th for D, 9th for E, 5th for C, etc, etc). It can also be played in
reverse, moving up instead of down on the 4th string. Or both ways, mov-
ing down then back up again (like Tommy McClennon's old "Step It Up And
Go"). You can vary the rhythm and add other held notes in a fingerstyle way.
You can hear it in lots of more modern blues and blues-based rock,
both "straight" and also with a few minor rhythmic or added-note varia-
tions, like ZZ Topp's "La Grange" for exaple. Or just hammer a single
note on and off between a few of the doublets, like this......

--5---5----------5---5-----------5---5-----------5-
---------------------------------------------------
--------2h4--2---------2h4--2-----------2h4--------
--2---2----------4---4-----------3---3-----------2-
---------------------------------------------------
---------------------------------------------------

Sound familiar? The same sounding lick can be adapted to open tunings too.
Johnson used it in those as well. Works easiest in Open-D or E, but also
fits in others as well. Anyway, there it is...the Robert Johnson A Lick.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Robert Johnson A7 sliding I-Position Figure

Here's another lick Johnson uses often in the key of A (standard tuning).

E)---------------------------------------5po0------------
B}-----4/5----------5\4----------4/5------(4)--4/5-------
G)-----5/6----------6\5----------5/6------(5)--5/6-------
D)-----4/5----------5\4----------4/5------(4)--4/5-------
A)-----0---0--0--0--0---0--0--0--0---0--0--0---0---0--0--
E)-------------------------------------------------------

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Sliding 4th-String and Diminished Intro (as in "Me And The Devil Blues")

You slide up the 4th-string with the index to the 7th-fret with
the ring, midddle and pinky forming the chord-shape on the 1,2,3
strings (ending up holding this figure 007989 with OOIRMP, which
is a partial diminished chord. The thumb and index pinch the dou-
ble-stops (note pairs), then the thumb and index pick the single
notes... index up on the 1 or 2 strings, thumb down on the 3rd.

That same shape held by the ring, middle and pinky is then slid
down one fret with the index remaining in place, now holding the
shape 007878 (another diminished) picking the same pattern. Then
you repeat the first part with the slide (tab-line two), but as
you complete the first part, change finger-shapes to holding a
pattern 000989 using OOOMIR. The pinky is now free to do that
little hammer-on/pull-off trill on the 1st-string. Repeat that
little trill-figure off the 7th-fret, then move the index and
middle to the 5th-fret on the 1 and 3 strings (allowing that
open-2 to sound) bending the 3rd-string just sharp of a half-
step. This completes the I-Position of the intro sequence.



E)--------------9---9------9---9------8--------8--8--------
B}--------------------8------------------7-----------------
G)------------------9---9-(9)-(9)-----------8--8--8--------
D)-->>>7--------7---------------------7--------------------
A)--------0------------------------------------------------
E)---------------------------------------------------------

E)------------9---9--------9---9----9h10po9--7h8po7---5-----
B}-------------------8---------------(8)-------(6)---(0)----
G)----------------9----9--(9)-(9)-----9---------7-----5b+ --
D)-->>>7------7---------------------------------------------
A)--------0-------------------------------------------------
E)----------------------------------------------------------

Now you'd go to the IV-Position (D) using any one of several
D-voicings depending on what you feel. The line below is NOT
A SEQUENCE. It is merely showing several different D-forms
you might choose to go to for the IV-Position (there are
others too of course).

E)--5--- E}--0---- E}------ E}--7--- E}---5-7---
B}--3--- B}--1---- B)--3--- B}--5--- B}---7-----
G)--5--- G}--2---- G}--5--- G}--5--- G}---7-----
D)--0--- D}--0---- D}--4--- D}--5--- D)---0-----
A)------ A}------- A}--5--- A}------ A}---------
E)------ E}-(2)--- E}------ E}------ E}---------

(Generally I like going to the first shape XX0535, then the last
last XX0557 adding that 7th-note after the XX0775 is played. And
then back to the I-Position (A) using that "sliding A7" shape above.)

Link To Robert Johnson Key of A Sound File For Above



Anyway, hopefully there are a few Mac-nuggets in all of that stuff that might help some. And there's lots more help and information in this forum too. Anyway, have fun!

[Cloodie]

Thanks again for all the info guys. Dadfad, you really should consider writing a book on this.

[Cloodie]

Tried to check out Dadfads tab of Hard Time Killing Floor but I'm only getting the text before the tab, not the actaul tab itself. Am I the only one having this problem?

[dadfad]

Tried to check out Dadfads tab of Hard Time Killing Floor but I'm only getting the text before the tab, not the actaul tab itself. Am I the only one having this problem?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yes, me too. Which makes sense, because I usually get a PM or e-mail every few days or so in reference to this tab and I haven't had one for awhile. I don't know what happened to it. Anyway....

CODE

#---------------------------------PLEASE NOTE--------------------------------#
# This transcription is the author's own work and represents his interpret-  #
# tation of the song. It is intended for private study, scholarship and      #
# research purposes only and is not intended for publication or distribution.#
#----------------------------------------------------------------------------#

Hard Time Killing Floor -by Nehemiah "Skip" James, 1930
Tabbed by Dadfad (John M.) duolian@msn.com or Dadfad@dadfad.com August 1, 2002
Done on Microsoft Notepad using: Courier New, 10 font.

If you're looking for a note-for-note tab from the movie "O Brother Where Art
Thou", this isn't it. This is in the style it was played originally by Skip
James. Very similar to the movie, but not exactly. That's how these styles of
tunes were done back in the '20s and '30s as traditional country blues tunes.
It's difficult to really explain how to play a tune like this from tab, but
there have been so many requests that I'll try my best. Skip James' style in
open D-Minor is largely composed of several "signature licks" that when added
to the general progression of the tune make it very recognizeable as a Skip
James piece. I think the best way to start is by first tabbing his most dis-
tinguishable lick with both tab and describing how it is played, and then
in the body of the main tab I can just say "add sig lick here". I learned to
play Skip's tunes in his style many years ago from Bowling Green John Cephas,
(probably the foremost living expert on Skip James-Bentonia Style D-min blues)
who knew him personally and learned from Skip himself. This will be a simpli-
fied version at best. The only way to play it properly is to become familiar
with the tuning and finger-style playing in this style and add and improvise
as you go, which is how both Skip and Bowling Green played it. I guess the
best way to start is by giving the open D-minor tuning (Open E-minor can also
be used but is harder on your strings and guitar neck). Tab would be identical
for either open D-minor (DADFAD) or open E-minor (EBEGBE). Put down your pick.
This must be played with your fingers.

Skip's main signature lick is as follows:

D__________________________||_________________________
A__________________________||_________________________
F____3>4____4<2___1________||_____4____2____1_________
D_____________________0____||____________________0____
A__________________________||_________________________
D__________________________||_________________________

This is the actual lick,    and these are the finish notes only for reference.

This lick is done by sliding from the 3rd to the 4th fret and then back up to
the 2nd fret. It can be done as two separate picks or as only one pick with a
smooth up and back down the neck motion. Then finger and play the first fret,
then the open four string. All of this should be done as a very flowing, smooth
lick. The note on the 3rd string first fret can also be a pull-off from the 2nd
fret note. Above I also showed the finish notes. These are just the notes them-
selves without the slides, so you can see which ones you're aiming for within
the lick. There are several variations on this lick, both with timing or with
additional notes, but this is the basic figure as used in this, and several
other of Skip's D-minor tunes (ei. Cherry Ball Blues, Devil Got My Woman, etc).
Skip and John both frequently used a John Lee Hooker-ish multiple hammer-on
on that 3rd string/first fret note repeated after the open 4th string that
ends the lick above, and then adding one of the "rhythmic figures" shown down
below after the tab for the first verse.

Now I'll start on the first verse. This verse, with or without improvised
changes, can also be used as an intro to the piece.

D_________________________0___________0____________0___________
A_______________________0___________0____________0_____________
F_____________________0___________0____________0_______________
D_____________0_____3________3__2__________0_3__________3___0__
A____0h3_______________________________________________________
D______________________________________________________________
  You know that  hard times 'r here  and   everywhere you go



D__________________________________________________________________________
A______0___________________________________________________________________
F____0________0______0___________________0_________________________________
D__0________0______0_________0_________0____________(insert sig lick now)__
A_________3______0_________0_________0_____________________________________
D________________________0_________3________3__0___________________________
  Times  is  harder  than  they  been     before


D__________________________________________________________________
A__________________________________________________________________
F______1______(sig lick)__________1_________(sig lick)_____________
D______0__________________________0________________________________
A_________0___________________________0____________________________
D__0__________________________0____________________________________
  Whoa-o-o.....              oh-o........


D________________________________________0________________________
A______________________________________0______0___________________
F______1_______(sig lick)____________2____________________________
D______0___________________________2______________________________
A__________0_____________________0________________________________
D__0________________________________________________0_____________
  Whoa-o-o                   oh-o                  oh


D_____3__________2________1______________0______________________
A___4___4______3___3____2___2_________0_________________________
F________________________________0h1____________________________
D_______________________________________________________________
A_______________________________________________________________
D___________________________________________0___________________
         (turnaround line to next verse or ending)

This is it, in it's most basic form. Note the 0h1 (O to 1 fret hammer-ons.  
These are pretty important to the style). These and other phrases often are  
followed by arpegiated downward slow strums. I improv around these basic lines
with changes in each verse, different turnarounds, changes to the sig lick,
etc. That's how Skip did it, that's how John Cephas did it and he taught me.
If you familiarize yourself with how the tuning works and its intricacies,
you will be able to do them soon also. I'll show a couple of variations, a
different turnaround and a guitar solo verse to start off with. A tip. While  
it's played in D minor, it's actually probably in the key of D major. It's the
inter-play between the minor and major that give this tune (and others of
Skip's Bentonia Open Minor Blues) their distinctive feel. The third-string
fingered on the first fret changes it from minor to major. Hammering into the
major was a frequent addition in these tunes. It sometimes helps to play a
line while the first finger is kept on the third-string/first fret or ready to
quickly go back to it. Skip's signature lick, and variations of it, were fre-
quenly injected into the tune wherever they fit appropriately.


D___________4p0______________3p0______________2p0______________0______
A______3______  3________2________2_______1_______1__________0________
F___4____4_________ ___3___3____________2___2____________0h1__________
D_____________________________________________________________________
A_____________________________________________________________________
D_________________________________________________________0___________
  (this is another variation turnaround to next verse or an ending)

The above is done using a pull-off to the open note from the picked note. Other
notes in the open strings can be added as well if desired.


D________0___3___3___3___0___2___0___3___3___3___0____0________________________
A__0h3__ _________________________________________________3____0_______________
F____________4___4___4___0___2___0___4___4___4_________________________0__2p0__
D___0____0____________________________________________0___0____0___0___0______0
A__________________________________________________0_______________________0___
D________________________________________________0_________________0__________0
(This is a semi-melody line guitar instrumental for between two verses)

The sequence above is a series of thumb and first-finger pinches with a few
rolling slow arpegiations added. Follow it with the "signature lick" (with or
without one of the rhythmic figures that are shown in the example below).
Slides, especially to the 3/4 pairs, can be added for more expression.
Again, this can be improvised as seen fit.


D____________________0_____        __________0_______________0_______
A__________________________        ___0h2____________________________
F______________0h1_________        ___________________0h1____________
D_______0__________________   or   ______________0___________________
A__0h2_____________________        __________________________________
D__________0_____________0_        ______________0________________0__
(Here are "rhythmic figures" that can be used with or in place of the signature
lick shown at the beginning. Skip frequently added one of these. He sometimes
would vamp between these and his sig lick several times before the next verse
and used them frequently as fills when they might fit in a given time-space.
Again, he frequently used multiple hammers on the 0-hammer-1 note above.)

The final ending chord to one of his D-minor tunes would frequently be 000130
which is a D7 chord, or a single note on the open second string followed by
this d7 chord.


"Hard Time Killin' Floor" by Nehemiah "Skip" James, 1930

You know that hard times are here an' everywhere you go.
Times is harder than they  been before.

Whoa-o-o, Oh-o. Whoa-o-o, Oh-o Oh. (Sung, moaned or hummed between verses)

And the people are driftin' from door to door
Can't find no heaven, don't care where they go.

You hear me singing my lonesome song
These hard times can last so very long.

If I ever get off of this killin' floor,
I'll never get down this low no more.

You say you have money, you better be sure.
These hard times will drive you from door to door.

Gonna sing this song, ain't gonna sing no more.
These hard times will drive you from door to door.

(The "killin' floor" was the nickname for the worst part of the stockyards in
Chicago, where the actual slaughter took place. It was hot, filthy, gruelling,
bloody work. Many who came north looking for a better life found depression-
era Chicago very little better, if not worse, than the lumber camps and cotton
fields they left behind in Mississippi. This tune, and Skip's tune "Illinois
Blues" are about the disappointment he found in the north. In "Illinois Blues"
he asks that a friend lie about how well he has done when he moved to Chicago.
Skip's D-minor style was a style peculiar to the Bentonia County, Mississippi
area in the '20s and '30s. Others from the same area used the same tuning for
many blues tunes, the only other recorded one being Jack Owens, but Skip is by
far the most recorded and most well-known. Others by Skip include "I'm So
Glad", "Devil Got My Woman" and, probably his most famous before the release
of the movie "O Brother Where Art Thou", "Cherry Ball Blues".)

One final word. Let me stress again how improvisational this style is. I have
three versions of Skip doing this tune, each one different. The same with  
Bowling Green John Cephas. He recorded it several times, I have several other
by him I recorded as well. None of these versions is identical to another one.
It would be a good idea to listen to as many versions as possible by both.
I don't mind helping with any questions e-mailed to me. My best advice is to
just learn the style, learn the tuning and then play it the way you feel it
should be played. This will get you started. Good Luck. -Dadfad

[Cloodie]

Thanks for that.

Just ordered my first Skip James album and tomorrow I'll get one of the girls in the office to print this out and laminate it so that I can spill my Jack and Ice without ruining the tab (maybe I should laminate my guitar too) :-)

[dadfad]

I hope you ordered one of his more recent (mid-60s) albums from the Vanguard label. His original recordings, while still excellent, were a bit "notey" and Skip (contrary to many of the old "re-discovered" bluesman) was actually a better guitarist in his later years. I belive the name of the albums were "Skip James Today" and "Skip James, Devil Got My Woman." But like I said, they are all good.

[Cloodie]

It's name 'Today', ordered it from Amazon. If it's to my liking I'll look more into his music. This is actually only the 3rd blues album I've bought (apart from a few compilations I bought years ago). The other 2 are by Robert Johnson and J.B. Lenoir.

This post has been edited by Cloodie: 07 June 2005 - 04:43 PM

[dadfad]

That's probably one of the Vanguard re-releases I mentioned. It's a good album. Better musicianship (i/m/o) and much better recording technology in the mid-60s when he was "re-discovered" than in the early '30s. Much of Skip's tunes are sang in a sort of erie falsetto (which fits the music well). Hard to duplicate that voice (for most people). I "discovered" Skip myself from a liner note on the old "Fresh Cream" album for his tune "I'm So Glad." Which caused me to try to find some of his music. Anyway, you'll probably like that album.

[tubescream8]

That's probably one of the Vanguard re-releases I mentioned. It's a good album. Better musicianship (i/m/o) and much better recording technology in the mid-60s when he was "re-discovered" than in the early '30s. Much of Skip's tunes are sang in a sort of erie falsetto (which fits the music well). Hard to duplicate that voice (for most people).  I "discovered" Skip myself from a liner note on the old "Fresh Cream" album for his tune "I'm So Glad." Which caused me to try to find some of his music. (And of course it eventually called for a "road-trip" to try to find him! He'd died a few months earlier, which I didn't know. But I did find others from Skip's area who had known Skip and played in the same open-minor style.) Anyway, you'll probably like that album.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

So who all have you met or studied with?

For some reason I thought you had met Skip James.

[dadfad]

That's probably one of the Vanguard re-releases I mentioned. It's a good album. Better musicianship (i/m/o) and much better recording technology in the mid-60s when he was "re-discovered" than in the early '30s. Much of Skip's tunes are sang in a sort of erie falsetto (which fits the music well). Hard to duplicate that voice (for most people).  I "discovered" Skip myself from a liner note on the old "Fresh Cream" album for his tune "I'm So Glad." Which caused me to try to find some of his music. (And of course it eventually called for a "road-trip" to try to find him! He'd died a few months earlier, which I didn't know. But I did find others from Skip's area who had known Skip and played in the same open-minor style.) Anyway, you'll probably like that album.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

So who all have you met or studied with?

For some reason I thought you had met Skip James.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

No, I never met Skip. I learned his style mostly from a bluesman named Bowling Green John Cephas who knew Skip and is probably the foremost living expert in playing Skip's style. John and I are pretty good friends (When Taylor issued a John Cephas model guitar not too long ago, he had one numbered and signed by Bob Taylor and himself which he personalized and sent to me.)
Over the years I've met and learned (or tried to learn. Haha!) from quite a few. The man in my sig-picture, John Jackson, I learned a great deal from him over almost thirty years. At the time of his death he was widely recognized as probably the finest acoustic fingerstyle country-bluesman alive. (He was also the kindest finest most gentle man I've ever met and had the honor of being called his friend.)

There have been quite a few over a span of over thirty-five years. Most fairly obscure. Others a little less so, like RL Burnside, Pink Anderson (Pink Floyd took half their name from him!), Henry Townshend, Willie Dixon, Louie Bluey Armstrong (blues mandolin), Snooky Prior (electric blues-harp), Honeyboy Edwards (who was Robert Johnson's room-mate at the time of his death. Honey, who is still alive and gigging at about age ninety, is a close friend still.) Sunnyland Slim. Most of the others, while tremendous guitarists, probably wouldn't even make the footnotes in a blues-history book. Most are dead now, and the few "road-trips" I still occasionally take are mostly paying respects at graves rather than sitting and playing with them. I've met others, just met but not played or studied with them. Usually just introduced to them by another bluesman I did know, in passing or at a club or something. Just a handshake and maybe a drink or two. Maybe get to sit and watch them play a while. Including Muddy, Otis Rush, Wolf, Etta Baker, etc.

If you could find them, they were very "accessible." And they were always glad to sit around with some young white kid who knew their music and cared enough about it to find them to learn a bit of their craft.

[tubescream8]

That's probably one of the Vanguard re-releases I mentioned. It's a good album. Better musicianship (i/m/o) and much better recording technology in the mid-60s when he was "re-discovered" than in the early '30s. Much of Skip's tunes are sang in a sort of erie falsetto (which fits the music well). Hard to duplicate that voice (for most people).  I "discovered" Skip myself from a liner note on the old "Fresh Cream" album for his tune "I'm So Glad." Which caused me to try to find some of his music. (And of course it eventually called for a "road-trip" to try to find him! He'd died a few months earlier, which I didn't know. But I did find others from Skip's area who had known Skip and played in the same open-minor style.) Anyway, you'll probably like that album.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

So who all have you met or studied with?

For some reason I thought you had met Skip James.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

No, I never met Skip. I learned his style mostly from a bluesman named Bowling Green John Cephas who knew Skip and is probably the foremost living expert in playing Skip's style. John and I are pretty close friends (When Taylor issued a John Cephas model guitar not too long ago, he had one numbered and signed by Bob Taylor and himself which he personalized and sent to me because many years ago when acoustic blues were totally not popular I told him someday they would be again and he was so good, he'd probably have his own model guitar named after him "like Clapton or somebody." He laughed, and said "Yeah, and I'll be sure to send you one just as soon as they do. Haha!" And he remembered that day, twenty-five years earlier.). In Bentonia, Mississippi (Skip's home county) I met an old bluesman named Jack Owens who knew Skip and also favored open-minors like Skip, but played in a more percussive style, more appropriate for say loud barrel-houses and dances. I visited Jack several times (including his funeral I'm sorry to say) and wrote his obit-article for a (now defunct) blues magazine.

Over the years I've met and learned (or tried to learn. Haha!) from quite a few. The man in my sig-picture, John Jackson, was sort of like my mentor and I learned a great deal from him over almost thirty years. At the time of his death he was widely recognized as probably the finest acoustic fingerstyle country-bluesman alive. (He was also the kindest finest most gentle man I've ever met and had the honor of being called his friend.)

There have been quite a few over a span of over thirty-five years. Most fairly obscure. Others a little less so, like Mississippi Fred McDowell, Robert Pete Williams, Johnny Shines, RL Burnside, Pink Anderson (Pink Floyd took half their name from him!), Henry Townshend, Willie Dixon, Louie Bluey Armstrong (blues mandolin), Snooky Prior (electric blues-harp), Honeyboy Edwards (who was Robert Johnson's room-mate at the time of his death. Honey, who is still alive and gigging at about age ninety, is a close friend still.) Sunnyland Slim (who although he was a blues pianist taught me great deal about structure playing with him). Most of the others, while tremendous guitarists, probably wouldn't even make the footnotes in a blues-history book. Most are dead now, and the few "road-trips" I still occasionally take are mostly paying respects at graves rather than sitting and playing with them. I've met others, just met but not played or studied with them. Usually just introduced to them by another old bluesman I did know, in passing or at a club or something. Just a handshake and maybe a drink or two. Maybe get to sit and watch them play a while. Including Muddy, Otis Rush, Wolf, Etta Baker, etc. I talked with Son House (Robert Johnson's mentor and one of the seminal bluesmen) many times but when I did finally meet him he was very fragile and pretty senile. I put one of my old Nationals in his hands once (he used to play one just like it) and he just looked at it for a few minutes like he was trying to make a mental association with it but just couldn't quite manage it. I'd seen him play once, at the 1969 Ann Arbor Blues Festival, and met him about fifteen years later wandering around his neighborhood, pretty much forgotten and unknown and was kind of like the "neighborhood-buffoon" character with his rambling stories of blues and Jesus and Satan. Pretty sad actually, for one of (if not THE) great founding fathers of blues.

Anyway, I was lucky enough to be "of age" in a time when a lot of these guys were still around. Their music was all but forgotten except by a few "afficianados" back then. If you could find them, they were very "accessible." And they were always glad to sit around with some young white kid who knew their music and cared enough about it to find them to learn a bit of their craft.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Wow, thats amazing. Looks like youve had some really amazing experiences. Thats sad to hear about Son House, he was such an important part of the blues its terrible for him to have been forgotten. Where was he living when you met him?

You mentioned Etta Baker, so Im assuming youre familar with Music Maker Relief Foundation. Have you ever met Tim Duffy? Or any of the other Music Maker artists?

In about a week and a half Im going to get to see one of my favorites, John Dee Holeman when he plays in Illinois. Im really hoping to get to meet him. You have any tips to get to meet people at shows?

(Sorry to ask so many questions, its just amazing what youve done.)

[gutterfly]

That story of Son House is probably the saddest I've ever heard. I wish I could have been around to meet the man, even if he was cenile, he's a peice of music history. Terrible that people didn't realize it. Only a few people around that would even recognize his name nowadays.

[Ranan]

First of all, guys, thanks for the tabs. good to have something a little different to try my hand at. i get a lot of blues, the whole Robert Jonston, son house scene your all on about, from a couple of uncles who are completely obsessed with blues, but never really got into playing much myself.

Dadfad, your gonna hear this from pretty much everyone who reads this (and im sure you've got it that many times before) but you sure have had a seriously amazing life. alot of people will kill to be playing with the old blues men. your a lucky guy, but hey, we're happy living through you. something to lookforward to.

its good to see that people are still into the blues.