[James1979]

What's the easiest song to start finger picking with?

I'm going to start learning how to fingerpick and want to know where to start.

Any ideas would be helpful

Cheers

[xXellieXx]

first thing i learnt was REM everybody hurts, there are probably better ones to start off with though. This question has probs been asked loads of times, do a search in the forum to see if you come up with anything helpful

[xXellieXx]

yeah its quite an easy one just because its the same pattern repeated throughout. when i was learning it i played it over and over again and everyone i lived with was like omg learn another song!!

[PingerFicker]

I believe that the first song that I ever learned fingerstyle was "Blackbird" by the beatles. It is really just a song with a bunch of two-note runs. So it is a fairly easy arrangement. I believe I got the tabs of GTU here.

[Teen Hendrix]

like the person above me said, Blackbird is a good song to learn fingerstyle. My guitar teacher also taught me to take 3 or 4 simple chords, like A D C G, and fingerpick them instead of strumming them, then try to work them into a progression. It worked for him and me, so it wouldn't hurt to give it a try!

[dadfad]

like the person above me said, Blackbird is a good song to learn fingerstyle. My guitar teacher also taught me to take 3 or 4 simple chords, like A D C G, and fingerpick them instead of strumming them, then try to work them into a progression. It worked for him and me, so it wouldn't hurt to give it a try!

   

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I think your teacher's method is best too, learning technique first as opposed to specific tunes. But it's just different approaches. The old Kansas tune "Dust In The Wind" is another starter-tune which uses the "pattern-picking" approach to fingerstyle (there are a number of distinct styles and approaches to "fingerstyle" guitar, pattern-picking being one of the simpler ones).

From a couple of old posts...

Finger-picking Styles

I'll try to briefly define them. It's not that easy because there are always
exceptions, mixtures of styles within tunes, etc. But here goes:

Arpeggiated Strumming is simple slow strumming through the chord,
usually with the thumb, but other notes within the chord can be added with
the other fingers, which would make it similar to pattern-picking but
with no pattern.

Melodic Note is where specific notes, usually within a melody line,
are the target notes. Stairway to Heaven might be a good example of this.

Pattern Pickingis where a relatively defined order of finger-to-string
is closely followed, which may or may not vary through chord changes.
Dust In The Wind is a good example of this style of picking.

Travis Picking is playing a thumb bass note followed by a finger
treble note, and then a thumb-finger sequence again, usually in a pattern
that alternates between more than one bass/treble sequence, like say in
a 320033 G-chord 6-2-4-1. The term "Travis Picking" was sort of misnomer
coined by folk artists in the fifties trying to describe this method of
picking (frequently used by Mississippi John Hurt) as the way Merle Travis
played, who actually played in more of an Alternating Bass style for
the most part.

Alternating Bass is probably the most difficult to master. It's
based for the most part on your thumb playing an alternating bass-line,
like on 320033 G-chord, 6-4 6-4. As this bass-line is played, the other
finger(s) play treble notes, runs or chord-fragments on the other strings.
They may or may not be exactly on or evenly between the beats of the
bass-line. If they are it's purely coincidental, because the treble-work
is played in a manner that is totally separated from the rhythm of the
thumb (called syncopation). This is the style that most closely resembles
two guitars playing as a duet. This style is also commonly using a
"double-alternating" pattern where the thumb goes between two separate
pairs, like on G-320033, 6-4 5-3, or 6-4 5-4 along with the treble work
being played as the bass rhythm goes on. This is the style used by the
great fingerstyle masters like Blind Blake, John Jackson, Tommy Johnson,
etc. It can be made even more complex (amazingly complex really) by playing
in both directions with the fingers and thumb. In it's simplest form, it
can be very similar to Travis Picking.

Variations might include the Texas thumb-drone styles of Mance Lipscomb
or Lightnin' Hopkins, clawhammer picking (originally an old mountain banjo
style which relies on the thumb and back-picking with the fingers, the backs
of the nails striking the strings.

So briefly that sort of describes them. They're frequently mixed, even within
the same tune. Or parts of one picking-style mixed with another, etc. A fairly
contemporary tune that incorporates several of these styles very distinctly
is "Embryonic Journey", a Jorma Kaukonen tune originally done by Jefferson
Airplane and later Hot Tuna. Pattern-picking, melodic-note, alternating-thumb
with hammer-ons, and Travis-picking (in a prettty dramatic D-thru-G-thru-A-to-D
bass-run in the Travis picking style) are all used within this tune. It's not
an extremely difficult tune (as compared to say Blind Blake, but no "piece of
cake" either) but is a good example of styles.

So hopefully this will help define the basic styles of fingerpicking. There
are others and many combinations and hybrids. It could be the subject of a
book instead of a post, but I hope this helps.

On Learning Alternating-Bass Fingerstyle...

Yes, but even the easiest tunes aren't that easy until you get the hang of it a bit. When I first was learning years ago from an old guitarist named John Jackson (the person in my sig picture). He told me to start learning like this. Take a simple chord, like say a G (320003 or 320033). Just start playing back and forth with my thumb..6-4 6-4 6-4....in a nice slow rhythm of 1-2 1-2 1-2 1-2 ( or 1-2-3-4 if you prefer, same thing). Just do that for extended periods of time. Even while watching TV or carrying on a conversation or something. He said that being able to concentrate on something else (like the TV or a conversation) would make it so that your thumb will work with virtually no in-put from your brain. Which is what you want......completely second nature without a thought about it. As you get to where you can do that, start adding a simple treble note on a higher string like the 1 or 2 in there picked by your index finger, without breaking that continual thumb-rhythm as you do. Build that occassional treble note into several, and then a very simple treble-line, like by simply lifting your finger on and off the 1-string. Then after you've achieved a little degree of ability, switch to another chord in a simple progression (which might be the C-chord X32010, or 332010, alternating the 5-4 or the 6-5, or 6-4, 5-3... whichever sounds best to you). Then move on to say the D X00232, etc. Play a very simple 3-chord tune all the way through doing nothing but the alternating thumb bass notes. Like Blowin' In The Wind or Red River Valley....a simple 3-chord progression. And then in other keys, like A (using A, D and E chords). Work with them, and then see how many little treble-melody notes you can add as you do it. At first you'll find most of your added treble-notes will probably be right on the beat with a 1 or 2 bass note, more like a pinch than a true independently-played treble note, but soon you'll be adding them between the alternating bass notes as well. On a 1-and-2, they'll be on the "and". Simple added treble-notes will turn into a simple melody. And then more complex treble-runs. As you get going, a great old fingerstyle tune to work with is Elizebeth Cotten's old "Freight Train" (she played a very simple yet rhythmically perfect alternating-bass style). Mississippi John Hurt is another one, not that complex but perfect (like his tunes "Louis Collins" or "Let the Mermaids Play With Me" and many others). His stuff is more difficult than Elizebeth Cotten's but not tremendously. The most difficult is probably the old masters like Blind Blake, John Jackson, Lonnie Johnson, Bo Carter...guys like that who used not only extremely syncopated-treble lines and runs, but also alternating-brushes, staggered and double-alternations and even (in the case of Blind Blake and John Jackson) alternations that were actually back-picked with the thumb moving in both directions, both up and down. Anyway, I hope all of that helps a little to get you started. The difference between playing a very simple tune just using strumming techniques as opposed to playing it alternating-bass style is tremendous. With strumming you sound like just another guitarist, with the alternating bass style you sound like a real guitarist who knows his instrument.

**********************

thanks a lot dadfad i get how these bass lines work now i just gotta practice them some more ,

just a couple more questions

when learning to add in treble notes would it help me keep the rythem better if i used a metronome?,
and am i correct in thinking when using this technique the D,A,E strings should always be played with the thumb and the E,B,G strings with the fingers?

If you're used to working with a metronome it may help. I used tapping my foot (I could slow down or speed up without having to physically change or re-set anything, yet it still kept my rhythm consistant). The tap being the 1 or the 2, the up-motion being the "and" between them.

As far as the E,A,D with the thumb and the G,B,e with the finger......that's sort of a rule, but it's a rule-made-to-be-broken sort of. As you progress you'll find a melody line or treble-run that might extend a bit lower (pitch-wise), maybe to the fourth string (or more) that will be played by a finger. Also, you'll find that sometimes you'll want to alternate a bass-note that's higher (pitch-wise), maybe using the 3-string, especially when you get to double-alternations (which isn't really that hard once you can single-alternate reasonably well. It's just a matter of using two pairs of alternating notes instead of a single pair....like in a G-chord 320003 playing 6-4 5-3 6-4 5-3.... etc. You'll find as your skill-level increases that there will be times when your finger is actually picking higher than your thumb (higher in the physical sense of closer to your head) which can be done by tilting your hand back, thumb-down/fingers-up sort of. It's not something done often in a tune (or at all in most tunes), but does happen. Occasionally part of the treble-line will be on a string also used for the alternating bass, where you finger a note differently and play it with a finger between beats for that note of the run, and then quickly go back to the alternation fingering and play it with your thumb. Sometimes you'll "break rhythm" and do an extended treble run from high-to-low (or vice-versa), etc. This is stuff that is "down the road" a bit in playing alternating-fingerstyle. So generally, yes... the thumb is usually on the E,A,D (and sometimes G ) strings, the finger(s) playing on the e,B,G strings.

*********************************

thanks a lot dadfad i get how these bass lines work now i just gotta practice them some more ,

just a couple more questions

when learning to add in treble notes would it help me keep the rythem better if i used a metronome?,
and am i correct in thinking when using this technique the D,A,E strings should always be played with the thumb and the E,B,G strings with the fingers?

About the bassline....you need to be able to do it without thinking, a metronome could help, but really you need to be able to completely separate your thumb motion, from all the other fingers. It takes time like Dadfad said, you can't rush it, b.c if you rush it, your just going slow yourself down when you add the treble notes.

As for what fingers, standard finger picking fingers are:

E-Thumb
A-Thumb
D-Thumb
G-Pointer
B-Middle
E-Ring

But those are just suggestions. I have seen people use there pinky for the high e a lot...it all depends on what you playing, how fast, and your own personal technique.

T^roy

Troy is right. Some use all fingers, some use just a couple. (Some even just a single finger with amazing complexity, like the Rev. Gary Davis. A friend of mine who studied with him for many years asked him once why he didn't use more fingers to play. He said "Cuz I ain't needed to yet." ). I generally use three, the majority of the work with the index (because it has a stronger pull to it), the middle-finger where it's just easyier to use two fingers than one, and my ring-finger only when I want to play something similar to a trill-like sequence. (My pinkie is usually on the pick-guard, where God intended it to be! ).


And, like he mentioned, Troy has a good topic about playing "Classical Gas" in the Acoustic Forum with input from several others.

[Father Fonz]

If you cant pick up something from the above - pick up your guitar, hold it above your head...

... and then sell it, never smash a decent guitar.

Out of interest, how long did that take you DADFAD?

[dadfad]

If you cant pick up something from the above - pick up your guitar, hold it above your head...

... and then sell it, never smash a decent guitar.

Out of interest, how long did that take you DADFAD?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I was able to do a halting, fairly poor alternating bass with a few added treble-notes within a couple of weeks. A couple more and I could do a relatively nice-flowing alternating bass with more treble notes, but treble notes of a relatively simple nature timing-wise... added either on or exactly between bass-note beats. The true syncopation... where the timing of one had no bearing whatsoever on the timing of the other, as if played on two guitars, took a lot longer. Probably a couple years to where my thumb and fingers truly functioned independently, where I could drop or change beats with either thumb or finger(s) or both and not effect the other. I'll still come across a passage once in awhile that "throws me" for a bit until I get it down, like a slightly unusual treble finger pattern combined with a slightly more complex thumb bass pattern (the last one I recall being Bo Carter's "Arrangement For Me Blues.") (Big Bill Broonzy's "Long Tall Mama" was a bit tough too for awhile because the thumb dropped into and out of playing the treble along with the fingers so often from the bass). So it's more of an on-going kind of a thing. Just when you think there isn't much that'll throw you, you come across something that does. Until you practice it and it falls into place. The best way is to just say after about a month or two of practice, a guitarist will probably be able to do some pretty nice alternating thumb style tunes in the style of say John Hurt, etc where to the listener it would sound great. Subtle timing nuances that might not be used would only be known or noticed by the player himself or a true "afficianado" of the style.

[Stagestruck]

Thanks dadfad, that was great timing. I've been trying a bit of fingerpicking the last few days, Travis style, according to my book, not the 'roll' but the one that starts with a pinch.

Unfortunately I ws only just getting to the stage where I could change (open) chords reasonably smoothly while strumming, and I'm still trying to get my head (and fingers) round picking and changing chords together.

I'm probably trying to run before I can walk, but I like picking, it's more fun than strumming. I've been practising on the easy chord version of 'Songbird' - Eva Cassidy/Fleetwood Mac from this site.

It should sound good when it hasn't got a 'hiccup' between each chord!

This post has been edited by Stagestruck: 06 September 2005 - 01:17 PM

[dadfad]

Yes, there's no question it's going to take a little bit of time and practice to get it down. When I started learning that style I'd been playing for a few years already and was pretty good with a pick and it still took me awhile. But it's worth the trouble for sure. It opens up a whole new style of playing as you get better and better at it. Simple strumming will never be enough for you again, and will make it so you can't even pick up a guitar to play "Happy Birthday" at a little kid's party anymore without doing it fingerstyle!

[RICH.J]

Blackbird is a real good one to learn on. If you know it and you like it, give it a try.

If you want to learn acoustic fingerstyle blues, the Woody Mann DVD's are really good. There's loads you can learn from those.

[Stagestruck]

Yes, there's no question it's going to take a little bit of time and practice to get it down. When I started learning that style I'd been playing for a few years already and was pretty good with a pick and it still took me awhile. But it's worth the trouble for sure. It opens up a whole new style of playing as you get better and better at it. Simple strumming will never be enough for you again, and will make it so you can't even pick up a guitar to play "Happy Birthday" at a little kid's party anymore without doing it fingerstyle!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well it was Rory's acoustic stuff, all picking and slide, that made me want to play in the first place, but I had to be content with strumming till I learned a few chords.
Can't see me attempting Barley & Grape Rag or Pistol Slapper Blues any time soon though!

This post has been edited by Stagestruck: 06 September 2005 - 03:00 PM

[Stagestruck]

Blackbird is a real good one to learn on. If you know it and you like it, give it a try.

If you want to learn acoustic fingerstyle blues, the Woody Mann DVD's are really good. There's loads you can learn from those.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thanks, I must have heard it, but I can't remember what it sounds like, I'll try to find it somewhere. I'll look out for the DVDs too.

I really should just concentrate on the basics first, but I get bored just strumming away endlessly. You'd think at my age I'd have learned some patience!

[RICH.J]

Blackbird is a real good one to learn on. If you know it and you like it, give it a try.

If you want to learn acoustic fingerstyle blues, the Woody Mann DVD's are really good. There's loads you can learn from those.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thanks, I must have heard it, but I can't remember what it sounds like, I'll try to find it somewhere. I'll look out for the DVDs too.

I really should just concentrate on the basics first, but I get bored just strumming away endlessly. You'd think at my age I'd have learned some patience!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Woody Manns' Acoustic Fingerstyle Blues The Basics is a great place to start. It's got Old Country Rock on it as the first one to learn, it's a great old tune. He explains things really well. It's in drop D, and it's a great one for just learning to get your thumb going dum Dum dum Dum, plus it sounds really good too.

Here's his link Woody Mann

[dadfad]

I met Woody about fifteen years ago. He gave me a few tips on playing the old traditional tune "Delia" as the Rev. Gary Davis played it, a sort of descending bass-line part that had kind of eluded me as I'd tried to figure it out. A nice guy, and his videos are pretty good. Woody also gives workshops both in the US and the UK (but they're pretty expensive, if not over-priced). When I met him he gave me a copy of his first video which was going to soon be released by Stefan Grossman, "Fingerstyle Blues Guitar." Stefan's guitar videos are available in both the US and in the UK. He has quite a few pretty good ones on country-blues at different skill-levels, including Woody's.

[RICH.J]

I think that's the best thing about his instructional tapes, he just comes across as a nice bloke, good teacher, very relaxed.

I went to see him in London last year, he was with Bob Brozman and an English Folk/Blues player Johnny Dickinson (great slide player and singer). Bob Brozman blew me away by the way! He's a powerhouse!!!

[Stagestruck]

Thanks Rich.J & dadfad,

Had a look at the website, looks interesting

The DVDs seem to only be available in NTSC format, which is a pity, I checked on amazon.co.uk too, but the online workshops look good. Introductions to my hero's heroes........ lovely!!

[RICH.J]

Those DVD's work on English players. I'm in England, and play it on a UK machine. It seems all those instructional vid's aren't really region encoded. I picked up some of mine in London.

[Stagestruck]

Those DVD's work on English players. I'm in England, and play it on a UK machine. It seems all those instructional vid's aren't really region encoded. I picked up some of mine in London.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hmm in that case I feel a spending spree coming on!

Btw you're the 2nd person I've heard saying how good Brozman is this week. A guy on the Rory forum had him play at his birthday party recently. They showed Rory's acoustic set from Rockpalast between sets and apparently Bob hadn't seen him before. Said he could see why he was the 'Birthday boy's favourite player.

[dadfad]

Those DVD's work on English players. I'm in England, and play it on a UK machine. It seems all those instructional vid's aren't really region encoded. I picked up some of mine in London.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

And Stefan also has a UK division for distributing his videos. I can't imagine they would be incompatible on players in the UK.