[shuke]

tomorrow im going to look at twelve string guitars and i have no idea what to be looking for...so im looking for any guidelines as to what should i look for in one etc etc....anything is appreciated

This post has been edited by shuke: 17 January 2006 - 03:33 PM

[MakoMako]

It's been told to me to just look for about the same qualities you'd look for in an standard steel-string guitar. That's if it's nothing special. I don't know personally, but simply told this.

[dadfad]

I don't know your price-range or anything so probably telling you what to look for as far as the common problems a 12 might have would be best for comparisons.

-12-strings are notorious for going out of tune easily. Make sure it has good tuners.
-12s can sound kind of "mushy." Make sure the separation between the octave-string notes sounds "crisp."
-Check the closeness of the octave-pair notes as you fret up the neck on a string. If they are not set up well the octave-pair notes will begin to sound "off" compared to to being "perfect" when played open. Same with the thinner unison-pair strings.

As with most things, the more you pay for it, the better its quality, but not necessarily. Check those things against each other on the different brands of guitars in the same approximate price-range. I hope that helps a little.

[shuke]

my budget is less than 1000

good tuners...can you elaborate a little more on that?

This post has been edited by shuke: 17 January 2006 - 10:42 PM

[dadfad]

Ones that stay in tune well. It's a little hard to tell sometimes when you're just checking out a guitar for a couple of minutes in a shop, but make sure the pairs are in perfect tune, then "stress" the strings. Play them hard or give them a few little tugs and bends, etc. Then check again that they are still in perfect unison and haven't begun to slip. There are certain brands like Schaller, Grover, Waverly and a few others that have good reputations. If you can identify the tuner-brand used on the guitar, that can help too.

[Schneibster]

I recently (November last year) got a Takamine EG523SC-12 12-string acoustic-electric, and I'll be posting a review as soon as pauliejay sends me the template and opens the topic; it's definitely in your price range. Here are the things I found playing it in the store against the Fenders and Yamahas and so forth:

1. The tone is important, and this is controlled by the materials and construction. A cheap axe sounds like a wooden box; a good one rings. Listen for the ring; play a couple of really expensive ones by well-known manufacturers (Martin, high-end Takamine, Gibson) so you get the idea what you're listening for.

2. You already have the good advice from dadfad on machine heads. I have nothing to add, save that it is important; stress the axe just as he says and make sure it doesn't fall out of tune easily.

3. Correct intonation is extremely important on a 12-string, moreso (and more difficult to achieve) than a 6-string. In case you're not familiar with the details, what you want is for the fretted string at the 12th fret to be EXACTLY the same note as the 12th fret harmonic. Don't trust your ear; use a tuner. Insist the salesman get you one. Accept no excuses. Edited to add: be sure to check individual strings; the tuner is not reliable for two notes played simultaneously.

4. Ease of playing is incredibly important with a 12-string. You're going to get a real workout, and you'd better expect it's going to be at least a couple of months before you really sound good with it even if you're a very good 6-string player, and your hands and arms are going to hurt. If you get one that sounds great but is hard to play, you may find that you aren't motivated to play it enough to master it if it's making you hurt all the time. I'm not having trouble, because I specifically picked the one I did as the ideal compromise between ease of playing and excellent sound. Be sure to consider this carefully when you are trying them out.

5. A good electronics package can make the axe a dream to play, and running through an effects chain with a chorus and reverb is something that can make a 12-string sound really fantastic. Think seriously about getting an axe that has on-board electronics preinstalled from the factory; try it with a tube amp and a chorus and reverb while you're in the store and you'll see what I mean.

Above all: Enjoy yourself!

This post has been edited by Schneibster: 19 January 2006 - 01:28 PM

[Schneibster]

how you like the tak? it's on my list as a search for a 12 (although it's toward the bottom end of the price range).

I'll read your review when you write it but how did it compare to guitars with solid back and sides?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It's a nice axe. The tone clearly isn't everything a $2000 or $3000 instrument would be- but then again, whadda ya want? It ain't like it sounds like a hollow box $150 cheapie 6-string, far from it. List is $950 or so, I got it for $650 (which required some grinding). The points in my post above were major selling points for me. The thing that tipped the balance was how easy it was to play. I've tried a lot of 12-strings, and there always was a trade-off between easy playing and acceptable loudness and tone. The playing is very easy, for a twelver, and the loudness and tone are more than acceptable; they're good.

This isn't an absolutely fantastic axe, but then again for $650, it's an unbeatable value. I compared it with the Fender and Yamaha offerings in the same price range, and it was noticeably better-sounding and easier playing than either of these competitors. The electronics package has a notch filter (for eliminating feedback) and a tuner. Plugged in, it's excellent in terms of its sound quality; I don't know where or what kind the pickups are, but Tak has done a really excellent job on them. Unplugged, it's very good, and for $650, it's fantastic. Fit and finish is impeccable, and they threw in a few nice bits of decoration; laser-cut MOP inlay on the neck, and the "flame-shaped" pick guard. The tuning machines are just fine; no noticeable slip, and I rarely overshoot when tuning. I'd buy it again, and that's the best I can say.

If you've got the simoleans, drop a couple grand on the easiest-playing Martin; but if you want to save some money, get a really easy-playing guitar with the nice electronics package and good tuning machines, and make the least compromises, this is the best deal I found. And I looked for a while, too.

I think Tak might have managed this deal by the unique saddle design- the saddle is "split," with the eight bass strings on one segment and the four treble strings on the other. The intonations are nearly perfect- and if that's not good enough for you, they are close enough that you can get your jeweler's files out and make slants in the saddle to move the point to the front, middle, or back, and that will be enough to make it perfect.

I will say that the first one I tried had a problem with the electronics. It would only work for a little bit, then it would shut down. This was not in the package on the side- it was in the pickups or wiring in them. The salesman swapped out the package for the identical one on another axe and it didn't fix the problem- the pickup leads and cord socket are wired to 1/8 inch plugs that plug in to the back of the package, so the major work was getting the strings off. I had to go into the city to their other store to pick up my axe. But no problems with it that I can see.

[annoying_2001]

you also want to look out for guitars that have 12 strings.

some only have 6.





sorry, it seemed funny at the time.

[shuke]

you also want to look out for guitars that have 12 strings.

some only have 6.

thanks for the advice, ive ALWAYS wondered why some of the twelve string's were only half strung lol

but really thanks for allll the tips advice etc. good thing i was celebrating the end of exams and wound up "falling asleep" at my girl-friend's house...i assure you that there was VERY little sleeping going on last night/early this morning anyway im going to go look at them tomorrow afternoon w00t.

*Im terribly sorry for the excessive use of emoticons. No emoticons were harmed in the making of this post.

This post has been edited by shuke: 19 January 2006 - 06:51 PM

[annoying_2001]

congrats on um...."sleeping"

[shuke]

Haha thanks man...yeah deffinately a good time when stuff like that goes down.

Schneibster, want to elaborate more on the electronics part? What should i be looking for?

This post has been edited by shuke: 19 January 2006 - 09:37 PM

[Schneibster]

Posted that review.