[okiejohn]

Took the little redhead to a fishing/social function over on the river last Saturday. I didn't take a boat, or any fishing gear as I was just going to visit with some folks and enjoy a fish fry. I did take my cooker, and did fry a bunch of fish. After the bellies were all full, and the folks were setting around under some large shade trees, kicked back, one of the fellas got an old beater acoustic out of his truck and played a couple of tunes. Folks enjoyed the music, and then he gets up and hands the guitar to me.

Well sh#*....I didn't expect that, so I says," You want me to play somethin'?"

They did, I started strummin some chords to get the feel of the guitar and the fellas home made, from a snuff can lid pick, and the chords just sort of became the chords for Angel From Montgomery, so I stop and tell em that I'm gonna play a song told from a woman's perspective. I start the chord progression again and damned if I can remember the words...I tell em I forgot the song...strum a few more chords and it starts to flow pretty well.

I got through that one and laid Sunday Mornin' Comin' Down on em, and it went well. I then gave the guitar back to it's owner, and figured I was off the hook. It wasn't as terrifying as I would have expected it to be, and after a couple of tunes I had the guitar back. I did Pancho and Lefty, Dead Flowers, and A Friend of the Devil. None were as smooth as they seem to go when it's just me and the pooch around the house, but it wasn't near as bad as I figured it would be...not the playin, it wasn't too good, but the fear.

Funny deal is there was a kid whose folks were camped nearby, and he ran and got a little electric fender that he's trying to learn to play and asked me to teach him some stuff. I said, "Boy, I'm like Ned in the first reader, but this fella over here can sure show you some things." One of the guys tuned the guitar for him and was showing him some stuff while I gathered my stuff for the trip back home, and when I drove out of the area, that kid was settin' in front of his parents camper playing that little fender.

[dadfad]

Sounds like a great time, Okie. I know what you mean about those tunes never quite sounding the same when you first break 'em out in front of people as they do when it's just you and the cat (or dog). That nervousness goes away (for the most part) (never really completely though, not if you're playing solo, but it gets easier). On a new tune, take it easy on the "fancy stuff" that worked great back at home until you've done it in front of people a couple of times and get more at ease with it. Remembering words is harder for me than remembering how to play it. I used to use cheat-sheets... not the lyrics, but a little piece of paper nobody but me could see with just the first word or two of every line (which is all ya usually need to spark your memory). Anyway, once you get over that nervous stuff, there isn't anything like it. Having people listen to you and actually enjoy what you did (or at least act like they did! Haha!) (Same thing, I guess!). Find an open-mic night if they have any around where you're at and that'll break you in. No pressure to remember a whole set or two, and you get used to that people-thing. And being old geezers, when you're playing the kind of stuff you like (and I like), is actually a plus. We aren't old on stage, we're just "authentic."

[ninjato]

Congrats. I went thru what you were going thru about 3 years ago. Funny thing was, last Xmas, I wanted to "show off" to my family what I have learned in school over the last 4 semesters.

Everything was cool until the moment I sat down and started to play. I broke out in a sweat so bad it was dripping off my head and onto the back side of my glasses, totally obliterating my vision for the rest of the song. I did better playing in front of my teachers than I did my family.

I recently did my first on stage large gig at a benefit/charity drive. I rehearsed my set w/ my partner for 6 weeks for 8 songs. We went out and rocked it. It was shaky for the first song and after that it was smooth sailing.

I always try to do my easiest and best song first to break the ice and get comfortable. The easier the song the better.

[okiejohn]

Open Mic...boy howdy, I sure don't think I'd be ready for that...well, maybe if I got my head right first haha.
I have played in front of a pretty good crowd before, but it was way back in jr.high, and high school, and I played a little steel back in those days...no singin'. Had a buddy that did the singin and the chords, all I had to do were steel fills, and make a run at Steel Guitar Rag and maybe Sleepwalk while he played the chords for that. I could keep my head down some.

There was a fella about my age there Saturday that was into those old songs. He kept askin if I knew who wrote em. After Angel From Montgomery he asked, and I told him it was John Prine, he then wanted to hear Illegal Smiles. I told him I hadn't played that one in some time, and doubted that I would be able to do it justice. I was a little dissappointed that I wasn't able to do it for him. He asked after Pancho and Lefty, I told him it was Townes, and heard some discussion about "who was Townes" most folk ain't heard of him, and then I was wishin' I could remember Snowin on Raton. There's toooooo damn many songs, and tooooo few brain cells still in the function mode here.

My biggest problem is keeping a good slow tempo on things. When I play for living breathing humans, I tend to get things in a bit of a hurry, and that's when things get sloppy...if I can keep the slow steady goin' I can do a passable job. Gotta work on trainin' that foot.

[ninjato]

Do you practice w/ a metronome.

That is a must. Everything else is secondary.

[dadfad]

......I tend to get things in a bit of a hurry, and that's when things get sloppy...if I can keep the slow steady goin' I can do a passable job. Gotta work on trainin' that foot.

I've heard that little problem referred to several times (actually, a lot more than "several") by old Black blues-guys as "The Curse of the White-Boy."


Once a few years back I was standin' in for a couple of gigs for a guitarist in the hospital who was part of a bluesband made up of all older Black guys. At a rehearsal their drummer kept picking up time on a particular tune. The bassman and front-man/singer kept bitchin' at him about it. I said "I think Raymond has a bad case of "The Curse of the White Boy." The other guys in the band all looked at each other, and then at me, and then they all started busting out laughing. One said "Where in hell'd you you hear that?" and another laughed and said "Ol' Johnny, he been around!" At the first actual gig the front-man when introducing the band during the set-opener introduced me as "...and standin' in for our own Mister Bo Collins tonight we got "Snowball Johnny..." At the first set-break I asked him where in hell he came up with "Snowball" and he said "Cuz you white as you can be on the outside, but I bet if I's ta cut you open with my razor I'd find some chocolate inside, jus' like a Hostess Snowball!"

I took that as a compliment. Anyway, yeah, I can easily be guilty of that too if I don't watch myself. Like Ninjato said, a metronome sure won't hurt. Or a good solid steady tapping foot. Whatever... "Beware the Curse!"


(And get your head "right" and do an open-mic.)



(And... "Who's Townes Van Zandt...?" Geeze, Oke. Ya wonder about how some people manange to be on the planet for so many spins around the sun without picking up a little more about everything. Especially older guys. "Pancho and Lefty" is a good tune, I've done it a couple of times years ago. Can't remember enough words any more (that brain-cell thing you were talking about I guess...), but I can still pull off "Tecumseh Valley" okay when somebody wants a Townes-tune. A lot of good tunes came outa that guy, and he did "Dead Flowers" like the Stones only wished they coulda done it. I saw him play once before he cashed in his chips (actually he was way past his prime and sinkin' fast by then, and too drunk to walk straight on top of it. Barely made it to his stool on stage.).

Anyway, get yourself three or five songs together that you know inside and out and get up on a stage! Ha!

[TheJosh]

word up on the first line-cheat sheet stuff

the problem i used to have a lot was with my own songs- i could play a good couple of hours of old folks songs and other stuff, but i'd always forget my words.....ill usually keep a scribbled copy of newer songs on hand but after a while it gets in there pretty good

one time me and buddy were playing and someone requested friend of the devil- we both knew it, but hadnt rehearsed it in a while. On the third or fourth verse i started singing and i had no idea what the words were so i started playing the harp that was on my rack and everybody laughed and it was funny....

angel de montgumery is a fantastic song....

[ninjato]

............. Or a good solid steady tapping foot. Whatever... "Beware the Curse!"

Sheeeeeet!!!! The white-boy curse ain't got nuthin on my non-rhythmic yellow axx. It took me a LONG time to tighten up my rhythm issues, and honestly, looking back, all my rhythm issues were all due to NOT practicing w/ a metronome.

I know so many guys that refuse to play w/ one (I used to be one of them, now I can't stand it ). Everyone comes over to jam and thinks they have good timing, then I throw on the metronome and you wouldn't believe how much it screws them up. What they thought was good timing was glaringly inconsistent against the steady metronome. Once you get good at keeping a steady beat/time, playing w/ people who can't is really annoying because you can't "let go" and be free. You are constantly in monitor mode.

My current white rhythm guitar player suffers the speed up syndrome also He's on my current rhythm infusion program

[okiejohn]

Metronome, I remember those.....back in my pup days a girl that lived down the road a bit and took piano lessons had one of those deals. First time I saw it and asked her what it was, she said it was a timer. I figured it was something those high society folks used for those three minute eggs that were always eatin off those fancy little egg holders.

She explained it to me.

I spect one would work.

I can do OK if I take time to get the right tempo going before I start what "some might call singing" the big trouble is just starting right in, and being too fast and going ahead with it.

Hey Dad, I like that "Snowball Johnny". All my life I was told that bein' white was an advantage. Now I'm finding that I can't jump, can't dance, can't keep time, can't play professional sports...well maybe hockey.

[horn82y]

yea but hockey is a rich guys sport

[ninjato]

I can do OK if I take time to get the right tempo going before I start what "some might call singing" the big trouble is just starting right in, and being too fast and going ahead with it.

Hmmmmmm.....Angel From Montgomery. I'm actually in the process of working that tune out w/ a female singer I found w/ a voice that makes you cry. So we have decided to do it real bluesy like Susan Tedeschi version.

Anyways, as I'm sitting with the song in front of my face, I see it has a 2 measure lead in before vocals start. When I think about it just about every song has a lead in before vocals hit. That lead in is used to set your tempo so you can come in singing on time.

"Angel" is one of the easier song to do for me. I have a hell of a time trying to get the Grateful Dead's "Franklin's Tower" out on time. I can either play it or sing it but not both. The articulations of the strumming screws up my timing for singing.

Singing in tune, and playing guitar in time together at the same time is hard.

[okiejohn]

Angel From Montgomery was my first try last week, and the lead-in is what got me off to a good start, I probably played all the lead plus a verse and the chorus before I even thought about the vocal part.

Playing and singing isn't too much of a problem for me...maybe it is to anyone that's having to listen to it though, but that's as long as I stick to pretty much just chords, or a few notes, maybe hammer on's with them. Now to try to play a melody and sing...no way.

Man, a girl singer, I know a couple of nice lookin girl singers, but they both have better things to do than gig with an old fart. One used to be my teacher's aid, she told me that she used to sing in clubs in the Houston Texas area, and even played some guitar. I never paid much attention to her till after she sang with one of the students at a little talent show. Damn, I would love to get her over here and work out a few tunes. I've tried, but she hasn't even had her old Yamaha out of the closet for about 20 years..been raising a couple of boys. Maybe some day.

The other is a young gal that taught with my wife. She helped coach the girls basketball team, and one night before the game, she sang the Star Spangled Banner. Needless to say, she was asked to sing it at every game after that. I gave her a Lucinda Williams CD one afternoon. She listened to it and said that she could do that...."Well", I says, "I know the chords to Lake Charles, maybe we could work up something."....well crap, she's young, had a boyfriend, got married, doin' all that young folks stuff, and we never got together.

Maybe I need to look for me an old gal for the singin', maybe that's the deal, ain't any of those little perky young gals wanna hang with an old fart like me.

[ninjato]

Angel From Montgomery was my first try last week, and the lead-in is what got me off to a good start, I probably played all the lead plus a verse and the chorus before I even thought about the vocal part.

Playing lead and chords? You know how to play chord melodies or there was another guitar going also?

Playing and singing isn't too much of a problem for me...maybe it is to anyone that's having to listen to it though, but that's as long as I stick to pretty much just chords, or a few notes, maybe hammer on's with them. Now to try to play a melody and sing...no way.

For the most part, I can sing while chunking chords and on a few tunes, deal w/ the melody while I sing but only a very few. A problem I used to have is locking my gaze on the fretboard instead of the audience which in essence, made me sing to the ground. I took a while for me to be able to play and not look at the fretboard except for an ocasional glance.

Man, a girl singer, I know a couple of nice lookin girl singers, but they both have better things to do than gig with an old fart. One used to be my teacher's aid, she told me that she used to sing in clubs in the Houston Texas area, and even played some guitar. I never paid much attention to her till after she sang with one of the students at a little talent show. Damn, I would love to get her over here and work out a few tunes. I've tried, but she hasn't even had her old Yamaha out of the closet for about 20 years..been raising a couple of boys. Maybe some day.

The other is a young gal that taught with my wife. She helped coach the girls basketball team, and one night before the game, she sang the Star Spangled Banner. Needless to say, she was asked to sing it at every game after that. I gave her a Lucinda Williams CD one afternoon. She listened to it and said that she could do that...."Well", I says, "I know the chords to Lake Charles, maybe we could work up something."....well crap, she's young, had a boyfriend, got married, doin' all that young folks stuff, and we never got together.

Maybe I need to look for me an old gal for the singin', maybe that's the deal, ain't any of those little perky young gals wanna hang with an old fart like me.

I feel your pain. Back in 2000, I got married and this 15 year old girl, the daughter of my Tai Chi instructor, sang a tune accapela for my wife and me. I was floored. You know, that voice that shoots right thru you and hits you inside kind of deal....a lot like what Whitney Houston sounded like in her prime when she did "My Bodyguard". I tried and tried to get her over to sing for me and lay down some tracks, and she even started to play guitar, but alas, she was caught up w/ boyfriends and school and weekends out. I don't think she realizes how good her voice was. It's even crazier when she has had no formal training.

My search continued though to find that female voice. I can sing pretty well, but there are so many tunes that I do that is more suited for a female voice, lyrically and melodically. Well a few weeks ago, I did my first big live stage performance at the Grape Street Pub (a local venue for musicians) and on their website, they had a link to MUSICMEET (http://musicians.meetup.com/). I figured it was a good way to find what I need. Within the first week I found this woman (36years old) that like to sing. She is a vocal music major from Louisiana who moved up to Philly and had no one to play music for her to sing to so she started going to karaoke bars. I emailed her and sent her a few tunes and she actually responded. She came by last week to start on my CD project. I couldn't believe how lucky I was. I played a clip of her singing for my wife and friends and they were blown away. Now I need to find a good rhythm player. p://

[okiejohn]

Playin' lead and chords. I'm pretty much a chord player, ain't been at it very long for much of anything else, but what I've picked up is playin some single notes that are in the chord shape, and that go with the melody of the song. Instead of just strumming the chord, I make the shape and hit individual strings in that shape, as well as strumming the chord. I'm sure there's a term for that, but I don't know what it is. I also like to hammer on within the chord shapes. For example, when I make the D chord I will hammer on with my index finger (g string second fret) hit the b and e string going down and up and then hit the open d string and play the normal D chord. You can do that with different strings on different chords, I like to hammer on with a G chord and hammer the a string and play that chord like I do the hammer on D chord.

You can do some of that stuff to put some single notes in your chords, as well as just picking single notes in a chord shape. To me it makes playing chords and rhythm sound a whole lot better, but then, ya can't do that on everything.....Well maybe ya could, but one would need to be faster than I am.

I've heard some of Dave Matthews stuff where he does stuff like I'm trying to explain.

[ninjato]

Playin' lead and chords. I'm pretty much a chord player, ain't been at it very long for much of anything else, but what I've picked up is playin some single notes that are in the chord shape, and that go with the melody of the song. Instead of just strumming the chord, I make the shape and hit individual strings in that shape, as well as strumming the chord. I'm sure there's a term for that, but I don't know what it is. I also like to hammer on within the chord shapes. For example, when I make the D chord I will hammer on with my index finger (g string second fret) hit the b and e string going down and up and then hit the open d string and play the normal D chord. You can do that with different strings on different chords, I like to hammer on with a G chord and hammer the a string and play that chord like I do the hammer on D chord.

You can do some of that stuff to put some single notes in your chords, as well as just picking single notes in a chord shape. To me it makes playing chords and rhythm sound a whole lot better, but then, ya can't do that on everything.....Well maybe ya could, but one would need to be faster than I am.

I've heard some of Dave Matthews stuff where he does stuff like I'm trying to explain.

I've been playing for a long time. I understand what you are saying. That is just called arpeggiating a chord but not necessarily saying playing arpeggios.

[Luv that Chord]

Congrats to you ...

The OPEN MIC NIGHT idea is a great one. just start with one or two songs. Practice the hell out of em (I mean till yer dogs leaves the room when you start playin) then go out an play those two songs an step off stage (have a shot ready for you at the bar).

The first time I did that ... I walked as cool as I could to the front door and puked in the parking lot. After i went back inside I met a few people an started playin with em.

It does get easier the more you play in front of people and I've found it makes it easier for me to practice. I have more confidence to try harder songs ... to work on solos ... and to play with other people.

PEACE
D

[ninjato]

The first time I did that ... I walked as cool as I could to the front door and puked in the parking lot. After i went back inside I met a few people an started playin with em.

I did the same thing on my jury 1st semester. It was the first time I ever had to play in front of 6 music teachers that knew me very well thru my classes for my final performance grade which was 4 credit hours per semester. They make you wear a suit too so I was big time uncomfortable, sweating bullets....my hands were sweating so bad, I didn't know if I was gonna be able to play. When they called my name to warm up becasue I was next, my stomach just knotted up, ran to the rest room and puked. I was shaking so bad, I could barely play but somehow made it thru and got a "C". For the 4th semester, we had to put on 10 pieces in front of an audience as well as our teachers...pretty much a recital. We cranked it out perfectly and got an "A". It was probably one of the highlights of my life.

[halfmoonbay]

What they thought was good timing was glaringly inconsistent against the steady metronome.

It's easily done. You can get away with it when you're practicing on your own (which is probably what most players spend most of their playing time doing) or playing out solo but when it comes to playing with other people or recording stuff then the ability to keep to a steady beat is a must-have. I've been playing a fair while and I know there are still times when I 'run away' with myself. Have been trying to enforce a little more self-discipline in that respect lately, am dabbling with some recording at the moment and life is a lot easier when you know that great track you've just laid down is going to fit pefectly over that rythmn track you laid down a month back.

[ninjato]

I find also that sometimes people speed up because their hand is tired. They want to finish the song before they get to muscle failure HAHAHAHAA

[horn82y]

I find also that sometimes people speed up because their hand is tired. They want to finish the song before they get to muscle failure HAHAHAHAA

thats the worse, ill get it but i know i have to keep the same pace, but when i am at home ill either finish super quick or just flat out quit, and rest til i am ready for the next piece of music (which will then be a slower song)