[superwinkie]

Hey folks, why not join MuSATO and give Rob a hand. Power with numbers!

All you have to do is amend your profile (My Controls > Edit Profile Information) to say that you join.

MuSATO, or Music Student And Teacher Organization, has been created to protect the rights that students and teachers have to use tablature as a learning resource. The MPA doesn’t want GZ.com to have tablature – but taking away our tabs is like telling a guitar teacher he can’t write out musical notation on a piece of paper for his student to learn (I don’t know about other teachers here, but when I teach lessons, I have blank tab pages that I write on for the students …. Surely that isn’t illegal, now is it?).

Let’s show the MPA that GZ.com (it’s weird calling it that, when I’m so used to GTU) is a place for students and teachers, basically – a place out of their jurisdiction. Let’s get our tabs back!

[afowl]

hey,
i agree wit ya'll. i mean i jsut joined as a member and i used tabs to learn how 2 move my finger up the neck of my guitar so much better cuz tabs helped teach me how to make new and better sounds. yeah im a new member, but old user of this site and others. what else can i do 2 help out with this?
alex
Tabs.........Mights as well jsut accept it..... we're gonna get them back.

[jukebaxman]

I think that it is sad that certain people think they own all the words and letters and numbers associated with music. I may be wrong but i think music has been around much longer then them, it goes back at least 2 or 3 hundred years. If they have ownership of music can they come to our house and take away our records and tapes or do they just want to control the internet. Shame on all of them, its just another way to try to collect money on songs we have already paid for.

j. baxley

[Macubus]

I think it is completely rediculous that they are tryingt o shut down these tab sites. Nothing but good has ever come from them and i don't know a single artist who would not want their fans to learn to play their music. It is not like people are taking gigs away from these people to do a cover act. I am OUTRAGED!!!

[superwinkie]

hey,
i agree wit ya'll. i mean i jsut joined as a member and i used tabs to learn how 2 move my finger up the neck of my guitar so much better cuz tabs helped teach me how to make new and better sounds. yeah im a new member, but old user of this site and others. what else can i do 2 help out with this?
alex
Tabs.........Mights as well jsut accept it..... we're gonna get them back.

The first step to helping out is to join MuSATO and show Rob support!

[rbalch]

Thank you everyone for joining, And thanks alot SW for the help recruiting.

MuSATO IS how the 'little guys' will defeat the big ones.

Please, keep passing it on, join! We need numbers.

Cheers,
Rob

[J_Iscariot]

Everyone visit this site to help out GZ.com.....

www.freewebs.com/xlunited/

[Jon Sykes]

Man...how depressing to get on here this morning to play some, and see everything that has gone on recently with the website! I am planning on recruiting all of my buddies to sign up to support MuSATO, and I hope everyone else does also. This website has been a GREAT help to people like myself who are married, have a few kids, and know they will never see a stage, yet they like to learn new songs to play around the house. KEEP UP THE FIGHT!!

[56Deluxe]

Hi, I just want to lend my support in the fight. I have enjoyed the tab site for years and found so much help there in learning songs. I would not have paid for songbooks to learn all that stuff...it's too expensive. I hope the people who want to limit our exchange of information enjoy a world with less freedom and less music. As for me, if I wrote a song and it became well known, I'd welcome others teaching it to each other...what an honor. That's my story and I'm stickin' to it. Andy Falstad

[MrPcWizard]

I'm with you!!.... I've learned alot of my favorite riffs from tabs....i already signed up... One question for you- why be nice to those who are not nice to us? Were the pilgrims nice to the british when fighting back? Think hard about that one... Its communism with a briefcase and tie.. Sounds a bit extreme, but this !*!* is ridiculous. This is still a free country and Im not going down without a fight!!

[brotherdave]

Hey folks, why not join MuSATO and give Rob a hand. Power with numbers!
...
Let’s get our tabs back!

OK I'm a MuSATOian now!

So they want us to buy their sheet music? Well I play bass and I can not find sheet music for bass in my town! Do they even publish it? All I can find around here is piano and guitar arrangements. SHOW ME THE MUSIC!

Now and then there is a bass fakebook with something in it I can use. I have two of these books. I wonder if the people who publish the bass fakebooks are paying royalties? These are legitimate books I bought in a music store and which are also sold on Amazon. How can they sell a fakebook with 200 songs in it for $20, pay the orignal publisher off and make a profit? I don't see how that can happen.

The online bass tabs and fakebooks more than anything else give me a starting point from which I adapt the recorded bass lines to my own personal style. (I hardly ever use a pick, so lots of the more intricate stuff I have to rework.) Often what winds up coming out of my bass is vastly different from either the recorded bass line or the tabbed verson. Sure I can figure the song out by myself, but without bass tabs it takes me longer.

Another point! Is the next step in this mess going to be that all live musicians playing songs in a public performance that were written by someone will be forced to pay royalties to the publishers/authors through ASCAP? (Technically I believe they legally CAN collect royalties for any public performance if they want, but they don't have the manpower to go to every nightclub, prom, social, squaredance, etc in their enforcement efforts.)

Still another point! Will all musicians playing for pay be forced to join the AFM local?

Where will all this lead and where will it end?

THANKS TO ANYONE WHO EVER POSTED A BASS TAB! SPECIAL THANKS TO JAN BJORKLUND WHO TABBED MORE BASS LINES THAT I USED FOR INSPIRATION THAN ANYONE ELSE. (I could always count on Jan's tabs to be very accurate!) THANKS TO THE WEBMASTERS OF THE TAB SITES FEATURING BASS TABS FOR ALL THEIR HARD WORK TOO!

[bscott600]

Here's a letter and a response from the MPA (they obviously took me very seriously):

Bret,

Thanks for your email to the MPA.

--
Julie Averill
Administrator
Music Publishers' Association of the United States


Bret Scott wrote:
> To whom it may concern,
>
> Your organization's action against sites that permit
> casual users to post their interpretations of an
> artist's songs is self-serving, short-sighted, and
> frankly unconscionable.
>
> These sites are how new players learn and become
> better players. They have access to simplified,
> interpreted versions of the songs they know and love.
> Since these posted versions are by definition
> someone's interpretation of a song, it's not
> necessarily accurate. As a player becomes more
> skilled, they will be more inclined to purchase the
> complete, accurate transcription of the songs they
> truly wish to play...
>
> ...assuming, of course, that such transcriptions are
> even available for purchase. I've searched for quite
> some time to find song books for some of the songs I
> wanted to play, and been unable to find them. I don't
> expect there's a great demand for the works of the
> bands Great White or Small Faces, so I don't
> anticipate Hal Leonard or Cherry Hill will be going
> out of their way to produce these transcriptions. The
> tab sites are often the only recourse.
>
> The tab sites are directly responsible for my purchase
> of a number of relatively expensive music books. I
> learned simplified versions of several Led Zeppelin
> songs; I made a point of purchasing the books for
> Physical Grafitti and Presence...simply because I had
> learned enough about the songs via the tablature sites
> to understand and have an appreciation for the genius,
> the complexity, and the sheer artistry of the layers
> of parts Jimmy Page put together in his songs. Without
> the introduction of the tab sites, I probably wouldn't
> have even bothered.
>
> Rather than threatening litigation, why not find a way
> to partner with these sites? Why not encourage these
> sites to present links to your organization and member
> businesses? For every player that you enable to take
> his talent a small step further, you gain this
> player's potential patronage down the road.
>
> The bad press you're getting for stomping on the paths
> of music teachers and students simply can't be worth
> it. And if you don't think bad press will come about,
> I urge you to reconsider. It's already happening.
>
> Please, find a way to make these sites benefit you.
> Don't just try to shut them down.
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Bret Scott

[BringTabsBack]

I think it is completely rediculous that they are tryingt o shut down these tab sites. Nothing but good has ever come from them and i don't know a single artist who would not want their fans to learn to play their music. It is not like people are taking gigs away from these people to do a cover act. I am OUTRAGED!!!

couldn't agree more... no harm has ever been done by creating or following tablature. it isn't used as an exact scripture, and it definately isn't written in stone... it's the musician's interpretation of that certain song. its very hard to comprehend why anyone would want to take away such a useful learning tool that has brought musicians all over the world together. "OUTRAGED!!!" doesn't even begin to explain how rediculous we are getting with lawsuits and such. they're just notes!!! they're just frets!!! they're just chords and strings!!! why do we have to take everything on so forcefully?




I'm not sure how to sign off...

Tony V, mediocre musician and strong tablature supporter.

[Guitarmommy06]

Well Im annoyed, I just started learning the guitar. Im a busy mom I need quick tabs and links I cant afford to buy music books all the time just to learn a few songs here and there!
This is complete BS, first we can't download music, lyric sites were shut down once and now this. WTH is wrong with the music industry don't they have anything better to do with their time and money??
Honestly I think in the long run the music industry will eventually wipe themselfs out for pulling stunts like this.
Men in buisness suits and to much time on their hands. Nonsense all of it.

[bruno390]

Hey folks, why not join MuSATO and give Rob a hand. Power with numbers!

All you have to do is amend your profile (My Controls > Edit Profile Information) to say that you join.

MuSATO, or Music Student And Teacher Organization, has been created to protect the rights that students and teachers have to use tablature as a learning resource. The MPA doesn’t want GZ.com to have tablature – but taking away our tabs is like telling a guitar teacher he can’t write out musical notation on a piece of paper for his student to learn (I don’t know about other teachers here, but when I teach lessons, I have blank tab pages that I write on for the students …. Surely that isn’t illegal, now is it?).

Let’s show the MPA that GZ.com (it’s weird calling it that, when I’m so used to GTU) is a place for students and teachers, basically – a place out of their jurisdiction. Let’s get our tabs back!

I think I am going to contact the ACLU about this issue. The court that ruled in favor of the NMPA is infringing in on my private affiars. Per the ACLU website their mission is to guarantee, "freedom from unwarranted government intrusion into your personal and private affairs." Whether I (or anyone else) takes the time to create Tab by listening to a song (regardless whether I put the lyrics down as I understand them) it is my private business how I distribute that work.

Another issue for the ACLU is the freedom of speech issues on privately developed TAB. The first ammendment has been interpreted to cover freedom of speech to include protection for any act of seeking, receiving and imparting information or ideas, regardless of the medium used. This holds true unless the Government can demonstrate that censorship is necessary, such as for hate speech or national security. I would think the Government (or NMPA for that matter) would have a hard time justifying censorship due to their greed.

So if many of us contact the ACLU and get them on the case I wonder how long NMPA can last with this. Our freedom of speech is being infringed by the NMPA and the courts that support their position. Individuals must be allowed to seek, receive and impart information without impasse, that is one of the founding principals of the United States of America.

Just my two cents

[detta8881]

If someone makes a a generic letter that everyone could print and actually mail out I think that could me more effective than emails ( as well as more work and frustration for the publishers association).
Another good idea is to get the letter posted on some popular music blog. The more letters they get bogged with the better. Send it to senators too, written letters are effective if they are in large enough volumes. If the court rules one way, the congress could always change the laws.

NMPA Main Office:
101 Constitution Ave. NW
Suite 705 East
Washington DC, 20001
Telephone: (202) 742-4375
Fax: (202) 742-4377

[1on6]

I have been a guitar player for a while, have been involved with numerous projects, and am in a cover band playing locally. I have used guitar tab sites for hard to find songs, and sometimes for second opinions. I have also spent THOUSANDS on books when they were available ! Some tabs are great and some need a lot of work but this is part of the learning process. I have written out lots of songs in tab and music for people and i develop my ears, thinking and playing every time in a way that is hard to teach. you learn to listen, and you must be on time and know how measures are divided and what time sig you are in . These are very important skills in becoming a competant (?) musician. Try learning 30 or 40 songs in a couple of months just by ear and books! the tabs on this site have helped me speed up the process !! try finding Al Green's Lets stay together in your local guitar center. not happenin!!

keep playin!
llater
1on6

[archard]

Hey guys, I just joined MuSATO and I just wanna say I support this movement 100%. In fact I own a tablature website myself, http://www.gametabs.net

This post has been edited by archard: 27 August 2006 - 08:35 AM

[chachikeno]

I've been playing guitar since before the internet came along and back then me and my friends use to get together and come up with ways to play the songs we love so much. We wrote down how to play them. Is that copywriting? Just because we were able to figure out how to play the songs doesn't mean i was selling them or making money out of them in any way. What these companies and their lawyers are doing is infringe on my right to free speach!!!

[chachikeno]

Hey folks, why not join MuSATO and give Rob a hand. Power with numbers!

All you have to do is amend your profile (My Controls > Edit Profile Information) to say that you join.

MuSATO, or Music Student And Teacher Organization, has been created to protect the rights that students and teachers have to use tablature as a learning resource. The MPA doesn’t want GZ.com to have tablature – but taking away our tabs is like telling a guitar teacher he can’t write out musical notation on a piece of paper for his student to learn (I don’t know about other teachers here, but when I teach lessons, I have blank tab pages that I write on for the students …. Surely that isn’t illegal, now is it?).

Let’s show the MPA that GZ.com (it’s weird calling it that, when I’m so used to GTU) is a place for students and teachers, basically – a place out of their jurisdiction. Let’s get our tabs back!

I think I am going to contact the ACLU about this issue. The court that ruled in favor of the NMPA is infringing in on my private affiars. Per the ACLU website their mission is to guarantee, "freedom from unwarranted government intrusion into your personal and private affairs." Whether I (or anyone else) takes the time to create Tab by listening to a song (regardless whether I put the lyrics down as I understand them) it is my private business how I distribute that work.

Another issue for the ACLU is the freedom of speech issues on privately developed TAB. The first ammendment has been interpreted to cover freedom of speech to include protection for any act of seeking, receiving and imparting information or ideas, regardless of the medium used. This holds true unless the Government can demonstrate that censorship is necessary, such as for hate speech or national security. I would think the Government (or NMPA for that matter) would have a hard time justifying censorship due to their greed.

So if many of us contact the ACLU and get them on the case I wonder how long NMPA can last with this. Our freedom of speech is being infringed by the NMPA and the courts that support their position. Individuals must be allowed to seek, receive and impart information without impasse, that is one of the founding principals of the United States of America.

Just my two cents

Right on!! You nailed it! This is exactly what all of us should do. Keep fighting!