[builtmyownbass]

Which format do most people use - tab or notation. I have started learning Paganini's Caprices (the 24th one) from notation - and it isn't that hard. I'm hoping to slowly move into learning songs from notation rather than tab (unless its absolutely neccessary).

Reasons to use notation:
I have noticed some interesting things:
First of all notation improves the ability to remember a piece not sure why but here is my gues:
It may be more difficult to regognize the notes on a staff, than to recognize positions on a tab. Secondly, once the note is recognized, it will then have to be worked out where to put the note on the fretboard. By doing this you are remembering how you learned the song, instead of just mindlessly following a set of instructions, as you do with tab.

Another reason for remembering is because the mind may subconsciously want to remember the music better, so that it dosen't have to try to work it out the second time.
With notation, you are properly informed with the note values - however being innaccurate with most tab.
The ideal set of music for guitar should inslude a notation/tab hybrid. From learning classical guitar - I have observed that most notation will include little numbers indicating the frets or fingering used to play that note (of course there is only one position to play a note on each string). This format is used if there is more than one way to play a particular passage, thus suggesting the easier way.

Tab will not die...
Of course, I am not abandoning tab altogether. If I need to quickly learn a song for someone's performance I will probably use tab, as I should be able to initially play it quicker than I would with notation. But if I want to learn a particular peice at my own pace (at the moment the 24th caprice), I will try to stick with notation. (Whole verses were memorized by looking at the tab only once of twice).

May I make a sugggestion to all of you - do bother to learn notation, so that you can both read and write with it (much easier to arrange the keyboard part to a guitar song using the notation from the guitar)

If any of you have any questions, comments, or criticisms, don't hesitate to post them here.

[guru of rock n roll]

I think reading music for classical music is necessary. But with rock music it's not as important. My reading and writing skills are way below my playing level.I recently decided to take a listen to every request in the tab request to expand my boundaries . It also ensures I am trying to play music I never heard before. I have always wanted to transciber/teacher and have done so with friends and thier childern. But getting back on the subject. Guitar Pro and Power tabs is the way for most people to go. The tab is thier and notes are thier. Alot of people say thier not accurate but on the other hand I've seen Hal Lenord and Cherry Lane books that aren't correct either. Thier is a fine balance I think . But don't get to depended on reading things to learn how to play things. You have 2 hears learn how to use them. And you will find with practice it becomes easier everytime. Just don't start with amazing type guitar players . Start out with simple easy tunes.

This post has been edited by guru of rock n roll: 23 February 2007 - 01:02 AM

[builtmyownbass]

I agree with tabs in rock music (which is quite simple). They are also easy to tab because they are simple. Anything with arpeggios and fast runs, tab just gets confusing and you are better off working out your own way of playing instead of following someone elses. (anyone can remember a set of power chords, though)
With the 24th Caprice, almost everything I've learned so far can be played in a different position. And by the way, I'm playing it on electric guitar because I cant get my right hand fingers fast enough for the nylon string.

[guru of rock n roll]

I have a eletric version done by Micheal Faith. It is kick a-ss. I love neo classical.

[dadfad]

...I recently decided to take a listen to every request in the tab request to expand my boundaries . It also ensures I am trying to play music I never heard before...

Very good. While I haven't gone quite that far, listening to and helping when I could since I've joined this site has greatly increased my musical-awareness, which had basically stopped in the early 1980s (stylistically anyways). Not that I necessarily care for what I hear, but I've always believed that no matter what one's specific musical preferences are, he should try to be as musically-aware as possible and strive to be sort of a "total-guitarist."

As far as tabs, I don't use them myself except to help others or use it to define something I've already worked on or figured out myself. I can read notation, but I'm fairly slow and rusty now (In other words I can't usually sight-read and play to speed any more) because I don't have a lot of use for it in the things I generally play. But again, it's something a guitarist (any musician) should be able to do when necessary. The parameters of what a guitarist can do should be greater than what a guitarist typically does, and those parameters should always be ever-expanding.

[jenniferdurst]

I generally prefer to use notation/a real score when I'm playing something that is strong on melody. As I've played piano over twice as long as I've played guitar, it's not all that difficult to read melody and simple harmonies. I don't understand, however, how people can get to the point where they see a chord written out (in notation) and know exactly where to put your fingers on the frets so quickly. With piano it's easier because it's linear, but guitar...whoo doggy.

Anyway, good observation.

[guru of rock n roll]

...I recently decided to take a listen to every request in the tab request to expand my boundaries . It also ensures I am trying to play music I never heard before...

Very good. While I haven't gone quite that far, listening to and helping when I could since I've joined this site has greatly increased my musical-awareness, which had basically stopped in the early 1980s (stylistically anyways). Not that I necessarily care for what I hear, but I've always believed that no matter what one's specific musical preferences are, he should try to be as musically-aware as possible and strive to be sort of a "total-guitarist."

As far as tabs, I don't use them myself except to help others or use it to define something I've already worked on or figured out myself. I can read notation, but I'm fairly slow and rusty now (In other words I can't usually sight-read and play to speed any more) because I don't have a lot of use for it in the things I generally play. But again, it's something a guitarist (any musician) should be able to do when necessary. The parameters of what a guitarist can do should be greater than what a guitarist typically does, and those parameters should always be ever-expanding.

Thanxs dadfadyou are the true Guru of guitar knowledge here. You have taught me how to play bass with my thumb and have opened a new door for me . I have only owned a acoustic for 2 years now. I'm still practicing the lesson you gave waiting to master it before I record myself and ask where you think I might need to head. Tim

[kkatarn327]

I am classically trained in music, having played violin and piano for many years before guitar, so I know my theory. However, the main reason I use tabs is that it is much, much, MUCH easier to find, share, and use on the Internet. I'll always prefer notation, but I think I'll always be using tabs because of their extreme convenience over notation (as far as obtaining them goes).

[halfmoonbay]

I've got an appalling memory when it comes to remembering songs, so having a notepad file with the chord progression and/or some tab in there fthat I can quickly refer to to refresh myself is very useful.

[ninjato]

Which format do most people use - tab or notation. I have started learning Paganini's Caprices (the 24th one) from notation - and it isn't that hard. I'm hoping to slowly move into learning songs from notation rather than tab (unless its absolutely neccessary).

Reasons to use notation:
I have noticed some interesting things:
First of all notation improves the ability to remember a piece not sure why but here is my gues:
It may be more difficult to regognize the notes on a staff, than to recognize positions on a tab. Secondly, once the note is recognized, it will then have to be worked out where to put the note on the fretboard. By doing this you are remembering how you learned the song, instead of just mindlessly following a set of instructions, as you do with tab.

Another reason for remembering is because the mind may subconsciously want to remember the music better, so that it dosen't have to try to work it out the second time.
With notation, you are properly informed with the note values - however being innaccurate with most tab.
The ideal set of music for guitar should inslude a notation/tab hybrid. From learning classical guitar - I have observed that most notation will include little numbers indicating the frets or fingering used to play that note (of course there is only one position to play a note on each string). This format is used if there is more than one way to play a particular passage, thus suggesting the easier way.

Tab will not die...
Of course, I am not abandoning tab altogether. If I need to quickly learn a song for someone's performance I will probably use tab, as I should be able to initially play it quicker than I would with notation. But if I want to learn a particular peice at my own pace (at the moment the 24th caprice), I will try to stick with notation. (Whole verses were memorized by looking at the tab only once of twice).

May I make a sugggestion to all of you - do bother to learn notation, so that you can both read and write with it (much easier to arrange the keyboard part to a guitar song using the notation from the guitar)

If any of you have any questions, comments, or criticisms, don't hesitate to post them here.

You have made the leap from being a jammer to being a musician. Congrats. Everything you mention about reading notation is spot on and I wish many more people can "see" what you see. As you see, it is really not that hard and the more you do it, the more natural it comes (and it doesn't take long). There is so much information you can get at a glance w/ notation that TAB doesn't offer.

I was just as enthused when I first started posting here trying to get people on the bandwagon only to get replies that were "negative" towards notation although we ARE talking music most of the time, it would seem logical but alas, humans are illogical creatures.

As you study more you will see also that visualizing chord structures and all come much easier than trying to figure everything out by the numbers. There is a reason notation has survived the ages, and with a little research, you'll see that it too has also evolved to where we know it today. TAB is pretty much musical ebonics imo.

[guru of rock n roll]

Well most people don't have the time or sometimes money to get the training to learn how to read notation. Tabs will never go away. I read a little. But if you can't play guitar in the style of rock and blues just from tab and listening to the song , well you got bigger issues. Some people don't need either and that's where all should strive.

[builtmyownbass]

Thanks for your support ninjato.
Mr. Guru, you don't need money to get trained how to read notation. All it takes is a diagram of what the notes are and the more you practice it, the more you will get used to it.
With notation, you see the music side of things, not the spoonfed instructional side.

[guru of rock n roll]

I just don't see the need for reading music with rock and blues music. And I have tried teching my self to site read. It's tough , I got things I'd rather practice than that. Its like for me stating to learn how to play all over again and screw that. i just don't have the patience anymore.

This post has been edited by guru of rock n roll: 27 February 2007 - 08:34 AM

[kurtlives]

I just don't see the need for reading music with rock and blues music. And I have tried teching my self to site read. It's tough , I got things I'd rather practice than that. Its like for me stating to learn how to play all over again and screw that. i just don't have the patience anymore.

I agree with that. But I do believe you need some music theory. It will help you alot in the long run. Learning other artists songs from tabs all your career wont do anything for your playing.

[guru of rock n roll]

I just don't see the need for reading music with rock and blues music. And I have tried teching my self to site read. It's tough , I got things I'd rather practice than that. Its like for me stating to learn how to play all over again and screw that. i just don't have the patience anymore.

I agree with that. But I do believe you need some music theory. It will help you alot in the long run. Learning other artists songs from tabs all your career wont do anything for your playing.

But theory isn't site reading. I don't play piano and really see the need for me. I will stick to the ear and tabs to help where it's lacking.

[kurtlives]

Ok I thought you were reffering to in general.

[builtmyownbass]

With notation, you know what you are playing, and you see how the voices move. You understand the composer's concept in their composition. You notice patterns of harmony, duration, melody, structure... With tab, all you do is hear it and it takes a lot longer to realize what you are actually playing.

[halfmoonbay]

With notation, you know what you are playing, and you see how the voices move. You understand the composer's concept in their composition. You notice patterns of harmony, duration, melody, structure... With tab, all you do is hear it and it takes a lot longer to realize what you are actually playing.

Depends on the player. If you've got a guitarist who all they've ever done is learn songs by looking at tabs and literally 'playing by numbers' then they've probably limited themselves and tab has become something of a crutch for them. On the other hand, if you've got someone who understands what they're playing and has a knowledge of music theory to fall back upon then that's a different situation. I don't buy that I suddenly become less able the moment I choose to read something that has been written in tablature form rather than standard notation.

[ravaging]

personally, i've abandoned tab for all but the hardest songs. even then, i'll attempt to figure it out by ear and get it as close as i can before i need to resort to tabs. i used to know notation, and believe me, it helped a ton, but over time i've forgotten it because i no longer play upright bass in an orchestra.

i think it's a good idea to abandon tabs though, figuring things out on your own helps develop your ear and improves your ability overall, and notation does quite the same.

[builtmyownbass]

I've started giving lessons to other guitarists starting out for free (for now, anyway). I was teaching a student who had been playing for a year and was considered to be an intermediate guitarist. I was surprised that he couldn't name the notes on the fretboard because all he had been doing was playing from tabs - I had to wite out a fretboard diagram, this is a serious matter!

I want to try to learn Paganini's 24th Caprice from notation rather than tab because its a preety good piece and I feel proud to say I learned it from notation. The arpeggios make more sense read from notation and I can figure out the sweep patterns and play then to my personal preference.