[rickc]

I mentioned in a previous post that I am getting a J45 next week. It's been a long wait, but I can now just about afford one.
What i'd like, is some advice on how much set up work they need from shop bought.

I guess that they all have their individual characters, but I have seen some posts about the action being set fairly high in the factory. I have done set up work on my Ovation to lower the action, but that was easy because the factory install shims beneath the saddle, and all you need do is remove enough of them ( there were three in mine I think ) until you have a height adjustment that you feel comfortable with. Does the J45 have these removable shims also ?.

If I need to do much adjusting, do you think it's a job I could take on myself, or would i need to find a specialist ?. I live in a rural area, and as far as I am aware there are no professional services available in the vacinity. Besides, I'd really prefer to do any adjustments myself.....I suppose it's a kind of ' bonding ' opportunity, that will individualise the guitar and make it truly mine.

I know that there are a good few of out there with J45's. Perhaps you would be kind enough to share your experiences with me any help me out with any tips, or anything else i should know about. Dadfad ? you've always given sound advice in the past, and i know you have a J45. Anybody else ?, your help would be very valuable to me.

[jones991]

my J45 came with the action a slight bit high, but i had it lowered a little bit. only cost a few bucks, and on a $2000 guitar i wasn't gonna F with it myself. one bit of advice, the plastic saddle that comes on it was a little weak, after a while the B string kinda wore through the saddle a bit ( i bend pretty heavy) and was fretting out. i picked up a new Tusq one (compensated) from stewmac and made it fit with a little sandpaper. the J45 doesn't have any shims under the saddle, however that's where the pickup is located. i wouldn't advise putting anything between the pickup and the saddle, as i'm sure it would affect tone and volume when plugged in. get yourself an extra saddle, hell get two, they're only a few bucks, that way, if you sand it to far down, you have an extra one handy. maker sure you measure the saddle before you order, it can get a little confusing.

http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Nuts,_saddles/...ge_saddles.html

I'm considering getting some brass or aluminum bridge pins for mine, just because the plastic ones are a little cheesy. (plus i'm a hopeless tinkerer). i'm not sure about the brass ones, because i dont really want a brassy sound. Oh the other thing i did to mine is to get a martin strap thing for the headstock, because i didn't want to drill a hole in the shoulder for another strap button.

http://www.musicians...tton?sku=420127

Oh yeah, and don't forget to keep a couple of 9 volt batteries on hand, for the active pickup. i always change the battery when i change strings, cause it's damn near impossible when strung and tuned up (you'll see) Other that, good luck, you are going to be the owner of an awesome guitar. welcome to the club.

[rickc]

Thanks for that info. Very helpful. Just wondering about the rosewood version.I know they cost a bit more, but the rosewood is reviewed to give a warmer and richer tone, and the embellishments seem to be of better quality. Does anybody have any personal experiences with this model, in relation to set up and overall craftmanship etc.

[dadfad]

Congratulations. I think the J-45 is probably the best over-all acoustic guitar ever made. Yes, I have one (and a J-55 and a "The Jumbo" which was the original round-shouldered model the J-45, 35, 55, and AJ models all evolved from). My 45 was my main-acoustic for many years (until I got my "The Jumbo" which is slightly bigger with a wider neck, which I like, and a bit more powerful) and is still my second-guitar. It's fifty-eight years old and still plays and sounds great.

Depending on the place you bought the guitar, they might be willing to set it up to your requirements free. I'd ask at least. If you do need to lower the action, if you take your time and a little bit of care in doing it (which I know you'd do on a nice instrument like that anyway) it isn't too tough to shave the saddle a bit. In all likelihood that's all that it might need to have done (if anything). I've posted working on saddles a couple of times for others in the past so I'll copy it below.

Raising (for buzzes, etc) and Lowering Action on an Acoustic

Saddle Shimming

Here's an easy way to tell first if shimming can help. (This is only a test so don't worry about tone, etc at this point.) Loosen the "offending" string(s). Take a tiny piece of thin plastic, like from a milk container or plastic bottle. Loosen your strings enough to slide a tiny strip under the string(s) at the saddle. Don't let the edge of the plastic extend beyond the edge of the saddle. Tighten the string(s) back to pitch. Try them. If the buzz has stopped, a higher saddle or shimming will probably correct the problem. Here's the copy of the old post...


First, check the fret. Look closely to see if it's lifted slightly. If so,
smooth it down a hair with an emery finger-nail board (unless you want to
remove, replace and re-dress it). If it hasn't, repacing the saddle as
mentioned above would do it (as MIGHT a slight truss-rod adjustment
(depends on why it's happening).

Here's a simpler fix. Take a tin can top
and a pair of sharp scissors or tin-snips. Cut out a strip a little
shorter and a bit narrower (appx 1/8 inch) than your saddle. This will
probably curl up as you cut it. Straighten it out (tap it with a hammer
on a block of wood, etc). Be careful this is sharp!. Loosen or remove
your strings. Remove the saddle from the bridge. Put the little strip
under it (if it's too wide, don't force it or try to trim it narrower,
just make it over again. Much easier.) Replace the saddle and strings.
They will be about 10/1000 higher. Thin brass works best but most people
don't have that laying around. A tin can won't have a noticeable difference
from brass, but whatever you use, it must be made of metal to transfer the
vibrations back into the wood properly. Good luck.

----------------------------------

Lowering The Saddle


Lowering the saddle is easiest done from the bottom usually. Remove it (just loosening the strings is usually enough) and take it out. You can usually just slide it out, pulling it gently with a pair of small pliers or even just your fingers. (If you use pliers you might want to protect it and the bridge from marring with a bit of cloth or masking tape.) Sometimes upon loosening the strings, you might need to slide another object between the strings and the top to remove the pressure on the saddle more to slide it out. (Something that won't scratch the top and spans the strings like a plastic marker-pen set on a piece of cloth or paper and slid back towards the saddle works.) With a straight-edge draw a pencil line across the length of the saddle near the bottom as sort of a reference to see how much you've taken off while you're working on it. Take a large file and lay it on a table or bench and run the saddle smoothly and evenly across it longways, making sure to keep the saddle both perpendicular and horizontal (unless you WISH to remove more off one side than the other). Check it by putting it back in place and tightening a couple of strings (usually say the 1 and 6 are enough to give you a good idea). Be careful not to remove too much, it's a lot easier to check a saddle a couple of times than it is to take off too much and now have buzzes and need to replace and recarve the whole saddle (a lot harder than lowering it). Anyway, I hope that helps.

[jones991]

Dadfad, did your 45 come with a a pickup under the saddle, or is that a newer thing? also i saw a pic of the new Epi version of the 45, i think its an AJ45 or something. looked very similar, obviously not as distinguished as "the workhorse", but for $300 bucks, hey, a nice copy. was wondering if anybody had played it yet?

[dadfad]

No, it didn't. Mine is a 1949 or 1950 and they didn't come out with under-saddle piezo-type pick-ups until the eighties. Generally I prefer a mic and PA whenever possible. Plugging in is more convenient many times but I like the mic'ed sound best when I can. In a situation where it isn't possible to use a mic and PA, I have a Taylor and a retro-fitted Martin D-16 with onboard electronics I'll use. I haven't played the Epi version of the J-45 yet but I heard it's pretty good for the money (It was called something like the Master Series or Master Collection or something like that.) I did play one of their Hummingbird versions though and it was pretty decent for the price).

[rickc]

Thanks guys for the information. Dadfad, just one thing I want to check before I start. You mentioned in your post about drawing a pencil line along the saddle to check how much has been filed. It might be a stupid qustion ( forgive me if it is ) but how do you know where to put the pencil line as a reference ?

My other acoustic is set a bit lower than the new J45 ( I got it today ), and I want to have the same kind of string clearance as on the other one. Should I measure the string height from the top of the twelfth fret to the bottom of the low E on the other acoustic and then measure the same distance from the base of the saddle on the J45 and draw the line there ?

I am not sure that I am making much sense, but hopefully you'll get my drift.

[dadfad]

The pencil line is just a reference so you can see what has been removed as you work. Maybe 1/32" to 1/16" off the bottom. Just make sure it's parallell to the bottom (even though as you work on it you might prefer to lower one side more than the other). That way you can see just how much you've removed compared from where you started to what you want. It's hard to compare one guitar to another and just say remove such-and-such amount. Measure at the 12th-fret (on the 1 and 6 strings) to see where you are to start. The general rule is that whatever you take off at the saddle, 1/2 of that amount will be how much lower it is at the 12th-fret, but don't use that as an exact amount you need to lower the saddle even though it's mathematically correct. Other things come into play you might not expect (like wood irregularities, tiny discrepencies in fret heights, etc). It's always better to err on the side of caution. Like I said, it's much easier to take it back out and take a little more off than it is to try to put it back on.

[adds]

For every mm you remove from the saddle it will take 1/2mm off the string hight at the 12th if that helps. Every company has there own idea about whats the right hight for the action as does every individual luthier or every individual player. Ill let you decide for yourself how you want it.

[dadfad]

(Adam, good to see you back posting again.)

[ninjato]

For every mm you remove from the saddle it will take 1/2mm off the string hight at the 12th if that helps. Every company has there own idea about whats the right hight for the action as does every individual luthier or every individual player. Ill let you decide for yourself how you want it.

Thanks for that tidbit.

[dadfad]

For every mm you remove from the saddle it will take 1/2mm off the string hight at the 12th if that helps. Every company has there own idea about whats the right hight for the action as does every individual luthier or every individual player. Ill let you decide for yourself how you want it.

Thanks for that tidbit.

But always keep in mind...

The pencil line is just a reference so you can see what has been removed as you work. Maybe 1/32" to 1/16" off the bottom. Just make sure it's parallell to the bottom (even though as you work on it you might prefer to lower one side more than the other). That way you can see just how much you've removed compared from where you started to what you want. It's hard to compare one guitar to another and just say remove such-and-such amount. Measure at the 12th-fret (on the 1 and 6 strings) to see where you are to start. The general rule is that whatever you take off at the saddle, 1/2 of that amount will be how much lower it is at the 12th-fret, but don't use that as an exact amount you need to lower the saddle even though it's mathematically correct. Other things come into play you might not expect (like wood irregularities, tiny discrepencies in fret heights, etc). It's always better to err on the side of caution. Like I said, it's much easier to take it back out and take a little more off than it is to try to put it back on.

[rickc]

Thanks for all the info guys. I ended up taking about three mm of a new tusq saddle that I bought as an extra in case I made a pigs ear of it. I am keeping the original saddle ( also tusq I think ) in the case, so that I can reinsert it, unadulterated for the future, so as to return it to the exact original that came from the factory. I am happier with the action now, but left it a little higher than my Ovation because its much easier to handle anyway.

Just as an aside, I bought the guitar in Dublin ( my nearest approved dealer ), I e-mailed Gibson Montana to register the guitar as you can only do it if you live in USA. I never got a reply as to how I go about registering the warranty from this country. I am a bit annoyed after spending two grand on one of their instruments !

Anyway, thanks again for all your help