[dorio]

Do you think the anti-free tabs campaign on the Internet was good for bands and artists concerned? When people learn your songs through tabs on the internet isn't that the sort of popularity you're looking for? Do you think that they're aware of what happened the last couple of years? All their fans have been forbidden to learn their songs via free online tablatures. I think these bands should be aware of what music publishers are doing (or have done) on their behalf to "protect" their interests. When in fact these publishers are doing nothing but business on their behalf (ie:musicnotes and the so called legal guitar tabs) I don't think that this campaign has been a good thing for all the bands concerned.

[guru of rock n roll]

Well Dorio I agree. A few bands even have tabs on the offical web sites.
http://judaspriest.c...abs/default.asp

and

http://www.yngwiemal.../mediatabs.html

It is interesting to see that Priest used the actual "copied righted material" And the Yngwie quote "These are all the tabs we have available. If a tab is not listed below, we don't have it - please don't ask us to send it to you. Yngwie does not transcribe his songs into tab format - that is done by various fans and other musicians (that's us) , or copied from existing songbooks." And all those tabs came from those books i once owned them that is why I had you remove them from our tab base (GTU) with the name Judy Lestke not sure of the last name spelling any more.
So these bands don't care about the issue. What the MPA is protecting is people who try to make a living that transcribe books for Hal Leonard or Cherry Lane or other publishing company's. I am not gonna stop transcribing. For several reasons it helps me become a better musician and I help other people in that to. And I hate people telling I can't do something.

[dorio]

Thanks for your input Guru.


If the NMPA MPA had really been serious in their campaign to protect ther 'clients' on the internet, they would also have gone against all the lyrics sites and force them to go dark. Isn't that right? Which is not the case, apparently: there are still thousands of them.

No. They had a plan.


It seems that the purpose of the campaign came down to that:


"MXTabs.net is the first legitimately licensed site designed to provide musicians with access to free tabs, while also compensating music publishers and songwriters for their intellectual property.

Similar to other user-generated content sites, MXTabs.net users are encouraged to create, edit, rate and review their own tablature interpretations of their favorite songs. However, unlike other user-generated content sites, only songs that have received explicit permission from participating copyright owners will be made available online.

Originally launched in 1999, MXTabs was one of the first and most popular destinations for guitarists and drummers to participate in an active community of tab, and home to one of the largest catalogs of freely available tablature. In 2006 the site voluntarily* closed its doors due to issues of copyright, and the assets have since been acquired by Musicnotes, Inc."


That's it. That was their plan. Musicnotes, Inc. In other words, to make tabs for MXTabs is like working for the NMPA. MPA via Musicnotes, Inc. Your work is voluntary, but they still do manage to make a profit from it.


Disgusting, you say? I agree.


*Voluntarily? What a joke.

[guru of rock n roll]

Music sales of books are down. I suspect that will be the trend for a long time to come. When I found powertab I was excited then I discovered Guitar pro and was thrilled. I wished I was good enough to write my songs with midi. I personally believe this is where the future is at. I know this is off the topic but I like discussing the whole tab issue.

[dorio]

We're not off as long as the topic is tabs. These programs you talk about are great, but they can't help those who are unable to use them. My question, basically, is/was if bands really approve of this campaign by the publishers concerning their work (they wrote the songs after all) Let us be clear that I was not thinking of major bands here, who do not need publicity, but rather the lesser ones that we would not even know if no one tabbed their songs. At least, I for one have discovered lots of bands because I saw their tabs online. I think the whole situation is not only sad, but also hypocrite. What is the point of threatening websites that host tablatures because their server is in America when you know very well that there are sites like UG hosting thousands of tabs but are untouchable because the servers are elsewhere? The point is these publishers are simply after all the money they can put their greedy hands on. Why lyrics websites don't interest them? Because it is unprofitable. That's why.

Like you so rightly pointed out, Guru, the sales of music books is down and will continue to go down because there're many among us who don't want to have anything to do with MPA NMPA products anymore. I used to buy Hal Leonard books. Lots of them. But not anymore. This clearly shows that these people do not have the long vision. When they started this ridiculous campaign it never crossed their greedy minds that they would lose money in the long run. And money is all that these people are after. It's a sad world. Also, have a look at the MP3 situation, certain bands whose albums were no longer selling that have put part of an album or a full album online for free. It has boosted their sales because these bands have simply bypassed the publishers.

Same for writers. One good example I can think of is Paul Coelho. His carrer was going down. His contract was in the balance. Suddenly he released one book downloadable for free on the internet. There were huge numbers of downloads of the book. The publishers took interest in him again they renewed his contract and advertised him again. Coelho was quoted saying that the internet and the free sharing of files had saved him. Not only piracy didn't make him lose money, on the contrary: it had put his career back on track.

Publishers need to open their eyes and be hyped to 21st century's technology. Because they live in the past. Their golden days of when they had total monopole are over.

[guru of rock n roll]

I am beside myself Dorio
http://tabs.guitarwo...llTime/Age/desc
I just don't know what to think about this?

[dorio]

"Sorry, but we have not yet cleared international rights from the publisher for the song you are looking for. In the meantime, check out these great tabs from Guitar World." That's how they do for the tabs apparently. Must be a huge headache to do it that way though. Paper work and whatnot god knows. They seem to get by more with their guitar video lessons than the tablatures I guess.

[guru of rock n roll]

I tried submitting tabs and it wouldn't let me. The song title seems to locked? But I seen alot of tabs. Most of them are crap

[dorio]

Yeah, I wasn't too impressed either tbh. Besides, practically all the tabs I was searching for, were not available, because of this "international rights" business. I wouldn't even bother to make one account there.

[guru of rock n roll]

I thought some more on this. Does it really matter if someone learns a song from tab. Should I fear someone who learns a song by tab? What if he gets better than me ? How will this affect my income? Sounds silly doesn't it. I doubt that little has do about protecting the musicians. Seening the web sites of 2 of my favorite top bands and a guitar magazine putting tabs up I am not scared any more. This issue was bullsh*t anyways. It seems the only people that affect has been Guitar Pro and Powertabs. And the rest that has took down the tabs willingly . Hundred of sites have remained and the one I hated most is still their. The way they are to control it some is making people pay more in how much more they use the Internet . The one downloading movies, music, etc etc will suffer the most. And most of this other copyright infringements will take care of themselves. I dislike this thought and it probably is going to happen anyways. So we may have a future after all with tabs in it. I just won't be able to download the music so I can listen and tab it anymore

[dorio]

Ahah I hear you Guru. Now suppose you hear someone play a song that they learned for free on the internet because their was a good tab somewhere, chances are you'd never notice even if they don't tell you ahah. Anyway who gives a monkey toss as long as the performance is good? And even if it is not.

Tabs are just another easy way to learn a song or (in many cases) part of a song. But publishers have failed to continue the policy they had regarding tabs ie: to make as if they didn't exist (like the internet) It was better for everyone. As I said above they've failed to understand that this new means of exchanging songs was profitable to bands that (I believe) didn't exactly say "no" to that kind of publicity. So that's not really protecting someone's interest isn't it. They should have realized that those who bought music books would have continued to buy music books (so their silent decision has made them lose money) My point of view is the publishers had nothing much to gain from their anti-tabs campaign in taking a hard stance like that. In fact they had a lot to lose (their bona fide to begin with)

I look around and I see the result. It is as you said in your post there are still hundreds of websites proposing tabs. So what was the point of it all..... That is what people are asking themselves now. And rightly so!

About people uploading/downloading stuff on/from the internet I really don't think we're about to see the end of it. Or they'll have to close Google and the big sites that host 'illegal' files. But they won't... because they can't. All the sites concerned can do about it is to delete files that have been reported to them as 'illegal' by their users. I was wondering why the big fuss about downloading from the internet anyway. When people can record from radio and TV which is the same thing as downloading from the internet..... but there's never question of copyright infringements about that.

[imadique]

As far as any bands objecting to having tabs available I think the only one that would might be Metallica...
There's a pretty cool story about a high profile Australian band (You Am I) finding their lead guitarist (Davy Lane) through tabs - he transcribed all of their songs accurately and uploaded them to a fan site.

I asked about the tabs thing when I was studying music business but the teacher didn't have an opinion either way on it (he didn't play an instrument so had never used them). He did however say that the print music section of a publishing contract is usually not negotiated too much by the band - and then only about percentage - because it's a fairly inconsequential part of the income stream, generally bands will let the publisher have their way with it. Having read a real contract offered to my friends band a couple of months ago you could see that there was no control over sheet music for the artist to exercise. So I don't believe many bands would support action against tab sites, certainly not any bands that aren't already very well known.

[dorio]

The You Am I story about finding their guitarist through tabs, is pretty cool I'd like to hear more related stories like that: it makes our point more valid. Tablatures are not sheet music. Anyway, imadique I was wondering if the publishing contract is included in the recording contract or if they're different things to sign. Maybe in some cases publishing and recording (like the contract you saw it seems) are mentioned in the same contract, in which case the band would obviously give more attention to recording deals than sheet music. When you're a new band signing your first contract, the thougt that some day your songs will be transcribed by fans and uploaded on the internet doesn't enter your mind, you're more focussed on your first album. That being said I think it is time for them (new bands) to focus more on publishing deals and read all of the small prints in order to keep as most control as possible not only on sheet music but also the rights of reproduction (on the internet) We have seen what kind of liberties the publishers can take nowadays because they have to do their job and "protect" you and your intellectual property. You have to be careful not to lose that kind of (possible) opportunity most bands would kill for: that is to have your songs transcribed and uploaded on the internet without the hassle imposed by publishers: they are your songs so you should be granted the option to let people have a free hand on them be it a portion of the song, or the entire song if you wish. Maybe they should include these two options in publishing contracts: option 1) you give the publisher a free hand on material uploaded like tablatures on the net or as separate publications in the media or books and sheet music (let them do their music books business that's what they're good for but you should know that they're zero when it comes to the internet). Option 2) you let publishers control sheet music ect. but you wish to give people the right to transcribe your songs and upload them on the internet without having to ask permission to the publisher because "time takes time" you have learned that one the hard way a long long time ago. Took time for the damn contract to come your way in the first place.

[regard13]

Do you think the anti-free tabs campaign on the Internet was good for bands and artists concerned? When people learn your songs through tabs on the internet isn't that the sort of popularity you're looking for? Do you think that they're aware of what happened the last couple of years? All their fans have been forbidden to learn their songs via free online tablatures. I think these bands should be aware of what music publishers are doing (or have done) on their behalf to "protect" their interests. When in fact these publishers are doing nothing but business on their behalf (ie:musicnotes and the so called legal guitar tabs) I don't think that this campaign has been a good thing for all the bands concerned.

I also don't like the situation with that anti-free tabs campaign. But it's inevitable - people are struggling for money since the beginning of humanity.

From my point of view - musicians should share their music by themselves.
If I ever write a song or any other composition - I will upload it into my webpage and let everyone who is interested to download it and play.

Tabs should not be free for companies who sell them. But for people who play these song as home or with friends - tabs should be free.
The best we can do is to write music of ourselves and share our tabs with others

[dorio]

tabs should be free.

Oh, yes I agree... that's the way it was supposed to be on the Internet. I bet the next thing on their agenda is the "illegal" download of films and music. They'll go after the "pirates" aye wait and see.

[noodle69]

its too political for me .

[shurid_gh]

I don't think that it is good.