[pimp_vince]

i've always been indecisive as to were to rest/not rest my hand when fingerpicking. it's either floating above the strings, or resting near the bridge, actually more towards the soundhole. anywho, in the 'first' position i always get a louder sound but my technique suffers from me being to "wild" with the pickin', usually hitting two strings instead of one (doesn't sound bad if i'm holding a chord shape but still...), and my forearm gets tense (and tired) quickly. And in the 'second' position, i get a duller more mellow, quieter tone, while my technique is amazing, but the part of my palm where my thumb "muscle" is gets tense as opposed to the arm. Which one would you recommend i settle into?

[dadfad]

I rest my pinkie on the pickguard (don't listen to classical-Nazis!). From there you can not only rest your hand a bit, but you can pivot closer to or farther from the bridge, allowing you to use different tones and attacks through the tune as you play which adds texture. Some parts you want louder and sharper, others maybe softer or more muted. The pinkie as a pivot poit gives you a lot of mobility, and for those rare times you actually need to use it to pick, just use it!

[pimp_vince]

hmm, that's interesting, i just curl my pinky up, i guess it's a reflex and causes most of the tension in my arm. i'll make sure to try that, it's just that i've always been uncomfortable using my pinky and to a lesser extent, my ring finger in finger picking (you might say i'm an electric fingerpicker). i do use pinky, ring, etc in hybrid picking, but that's mostly for SRV type stuff.

[dadfad]

Vince, I rarely use anymore than my thumb, index and middle. And mostly thumb and index at that. The one-finger/one-string concept works okay for classical or sometimes pattern-picking, but not in the "real world" of steel-string guitars where strength, dynamics, percussion, attack and all the other variables of artful playing become are involved. The tremendously skilled fingerstyle player Reverend Gary Davis only used thumb and index (a friend of mine Roy Bookbinder studied with Rev. Davis for many years and once asked him why he didn't use more fingers. His answer was "...'cause I ain't needed 'em yet!") My teacher John Jackson used four sometimes, but more than ninety percent of his stuff was done with thumb and two or thumb and index only, including tremendously complex fingerstyle tunes like "West Coast Blues" or "Police Dog Blues". People who start with electric have a harder time initially using the pinkie (or pinkie and ring) as a pivot point resting on the pickguard because they're generally used to holding a pick and using more of a whole-hand motion to play. It will become a very natural and comfortable way of holding your hand with a little getting used to. And try to think of your hand in the same way a piano player thinks of and uses his pedals. You can change the character of play dramatically as you do a tune by where you pick (between the sound-hole and the saddle) and the use of ball of your palm or thumb as a muting/un-muting tool. Like I said, extremely complex fingerstyle work can be done with the thumb and just a finger or two. The ring (or middle and ring) occassionally used for strums added to the fingerpicking (the backs of the nails mostly). So anchor with the pinkie (ignoring what a classically-trained instructor might say) (file it with "NEVER use your thumb to fret"), and like I said, if you ever NEED to use it, it's still there.

[pimp_vince]

ya i'll be trying that, it's slowed my picking down a lot. but i guess it'l be for the better. thanks for the help.

[dadfad]

By the way, just in case... use the TIP of your pinkie for support, with the rest of your fingers suspended above the strings like a spider!

[capo2nd]

I'm picking with my thumb mostly. Good for most songs I play picked out. Like "If You Could Read My Mind" by Gordon Lightfoot or "Carrickfergus" which is an Irish folk tune or even some of Christy Moore's stuff.

[dogpoo]

classical-Nazi
never use my pinky though and i'm not too good with my fourth finger either.

my fingers go one string one finger until the fourth finger then my pinky usually lands up in the same position of my other fingers but in the air.

did that make sense??



oh wait, don't listen to me. i'm a classical-Nazi.

[dadfad]

I don't consider people who play classical music or even those who use purely classical tecniques "classical-Nazis". I use that term to refer to people who refuse to admit that other non-classical techniques are acceptable, even preferable, in application to various forms of music. Many acoustic teachers (probably a majority) come from the classical tradition. This is because until not too many years ago, the only acoustic instruction available was classical (when I started playing there were no artist-songbooks, tabs, videos, etc for popular guitar. The closest you could come would be the works of Sor (with the^ over the o!) or something. Some of these instructors (and players) will say such and such is "wrong" or "in-correct" or not an acceptible way of playing because THEY were not taught that way and it falls outside of the classical tradition of playing. THOSE are "classical Nazis". For example, on some fingerstyle tunes in the key of G (or using a G-based chord very prominently) I use my thumb to fret the G-note on the sixth-string/third-fret. This gives me a bass-G with an open fourth-string for the alternating bass D-note, which I play with my picking-thumb. At the same time it leaves me with four useable fretting fingers to play any note or sequence of notes on the 1,2,3,4 strings from open to the sixth or seventh fret with an extremely rapid attack. That's the ONLY way a sequence like that can be played with the same accessability and speed. I don't care if Segovia himself came down in a hermetically-sealed golden guitar-humidor drawn by horses snorting fire to play it, I (and others using that method) could kick his ass back to the pompous underworld of classical-Nazism. And there are many players and teachers who would say doing that was "wrong", even though there is no other way to play it and they couldn't show a "right" way. THOSE are "classical-Nazis". The music you make is the ultimate end of "all-of-this", and there is no right or wrong way if it makes the music you want to make.

[wavewalker]

Pinky huh?

I'll try it out.

[wavewalker]

I started to play (sometimes it's hard to tell what you do without a guitar in your hands) and figured out I do use my pinky sometimes but variant from that back to floating then to a thumb or wrist anchored. That's not bad is it? Variety?

[dadfad]

No, whatever is most comfortable and gives most access. I don't always have my pinkie on either, when I add four-finger nail-strums or slaps or string-pops or any number of other things. Just that pivoting on the pinkie is a good taking-off point.

[haggis]

I'm very much of the "thumb and forefinger" persuasion, my pinky is mostly for balance....

[dadfad]

Same with me, Haggis. If they amputated my middle and ring fingers on my picking hand, 75% of the stuff I play I could do still. Maybe have to pick a little faster with my forefinger once in a while, but that's about it. (Just leave me that pinkie to anchor with!)


AND.....(drum roll)......(I swear this is true)......I saw a guy who got both his hands cut off in a farming accident who played slide-guitar. He used a mic-stand for the slide and a pick in his hook (informally he'd get down in the floor and use a table-leg with a butter-knife taped to it for the slide). He'd bang away and actually played pretty decent slide!



(Pretty shabby at fingerstyle stuff though! )

[haggis]

*shouldn't laugh, really, but.......*

[dadfad]

Yes, quite a performance. Very......(should I?).......(yes).........disarming!










As far as dedication, you really have to hand it to him I guess.

This post has been edited by dadfad: 13 November 2003 - 03:18 PM

[wavewalker]

That’s terrible!


Though it is the first time GTU has actually brought tears of laughter to my eyes.

[dadfad]

We are the world.

[pimp_vince]

i know this one's outside the wonderful world of acoustics, but didn't toni iommi have his fret fingertips sheared off in a sheet metal cutting incedent?







(coincidentally, goldmember had one precious appendage sheared off in an unfortunate shmelting accident)










(actually that was a terrible joke....)




(i'm so sorry)

[annoying_2001]

i use my thumb....it's extremely versitle, and it makes me sound good. the best of both worlds.