[joeybcdt]

The following is a quote of pbaxter:

Here is a quick tip on Gibson serial numbers

In 1977, Gibson first introduced the serialization method that is in practice today. This updated system
utilizes an impressed eight digit numbering scheme that covers both serializing and dating functions. The
pattern is as follows:
YDDDYPPP
YY is the production year
DDD is the day of the year
PPP is the plant designation and/or instrument rank.


91025005
Year 95
day 102
plant 005 I believe this is Bozeman, Montana

This just doesn't make any sense. Every guitar coming off the line in the same day at the same plant would have the same serial number.

Another issue: My LP serial # is 94020005

So my LP was made at the MT factory in 1990 on the 402 day. Problem is I'm sure other guitars were made that day also. But the clincher is my LP was made on day 402. Maybe I missed that year. I thought there was only 365 days in a year.

Can anyone clear this up for me?

Joey

Sorry for the waste of bandwidth. I found the answer pretty quickly at the Gibson site:

Since 1989, acoustic guitars built at our Bozeman, Montana facility are ranked from 001-499. Electric Guitars built at the Gibson USA plant in Nashville are ranked from 500-999. Prior to 1984, the numbers 001-499 show Kalamazoo production, 500-999 show Nashville production. The serial numbers from the Custom, Art, and Historic division vary depending on the line. The historic reissue guitars feature historically accurate serial numbers.

Examples: 70108276 means the instrument was produced on Jan. 10, 1978, in Kalamazoo and was the 276th instrument stamped that day.

82765501 means the instrument was produced on Oct. 3, 1985, in Nashville and was the 1st instrument stamped that day.

This post has been edited by joeybcdt: 20 November 2003 - 07:53 PM

[dadfad]

Dating Gibsons accurately (especially older ones) sometimes isn't easy. There were several changes made over the years in the numbering systems. To complicate things even more, necks used to have numbers (usually end-block numbers stamped on them. The neck was stamped when IT was made, usually enough for the day's run. If there were necks left at the end of the day, they hung there till the next run of that model (several days maybe, or months). Any newer-made necks were just put on the rack with them. Which again might not all have been used. This opened the potential for the last couple of necks to hang there for months (even years) before they were used. Dating old Gibsons requires a knowledge of the numbering system in place of that time as well as a knowledge of the guitars themselves. (Exact specified neck-to-body fret-joint locations, the order and sequence of the alternating black/white purfling, pick-guard density and design, tuners used, headstock color, logo and material......lots of things. And then there are still exceptions. I've seen Gibsons (with original bill-of-sale, factory shipment record and number) that absolutely conflict with Gibson's manufacture-date. You have to take the number as a general guideline, and use a series of clues to go from there to be sure. I have a 1934 Jumbo with a '33 end-block date (Gibson manufactured its first Jumbo (actually the first Jumbo ever made by anyone) in mid-1934. My L-1 has a 1927 number. The purfling-bands and neck-joint location and logo letter-style are such that it positively, absolutely has to be a 1930. During the war (WWII), lots of left over materials and parts were bastardized which created a number of out-of-form guitars that, by the books, could not have existed (but of course they do). Electrics (being newer and the numbers generally more acurate) still have problems in dating sometimes. Pot-dates (the day the potentiometers were made) are a clue, but only means it can be no earlier than the date the pot was made, but could be much newer (assuming it still has original pots!). I have several vintage electrics with.....er....."conflict-issues"! A guitar with '71 pots, a mother-of-pearl inlaid ES-347 and a 1971 factory-ship order to that serial number, and Gibson's records show that model was never made until 1973. And NEVER in the color I have! Their custom-shop also created much confusion, often custom mixing parts of one guitar with parts of another to make exactly what the customer wanted, in whatever color and decoration-level he wanted, and kept little (virtually NO) records of the custom orders. It's not so bad after the mid-fifties usually (usually), but still a number of anamolies exist (the move to Nashville from Kalamazoo caused a lot of confusion when it happened, especially in the electrics for a few years). So it's something that takes more than a simple number scheme to accurately date some Gibsons (there are several whole books on the subject written about how to do it!). The numbers are usually fairly accurate (even if not exact) if you're using the correct system for that time-period, but there's often a lot more to it that just using a chart.

[joeybcdt]

dadfad:

Me and the CW did a little bonding last night. The machine heads are going to have to be replaced. I haven't been able to find exact replacements. Does it matter? Here's a set of Gibson Vintage
and here's a set of Gibson Modern . These really just look like Grovers with custom pegs.

Does it matter which?

Joey

[dadfad]

Not really, but the newer style MIGHT have a wider shaft or bushing. Also, take a look at Elderly Instruments (go to my profile web-page and there's a link near the bottom). They have a complete selection of Gibson replacement tuners (Klusons, Grovers, Shallers, etc). Always keep your old tuners (or anything removed from a restoration). There might come a time when it will increase the value to have all the extra original-parts with it. I put original-parts from a restoration in a little baggie and put them in the case with it. From a purely collectibility point of view (and I'm not a collector, I'm a guitarist) a set of bad originals is more valuable than a set of excellent replacements. Whenever possible, use tuners with the same screw-hole locations too.



(Unless it's pretty obvious they're worn-out, you might want to remove them and try soaking them in alcohol, working them and sloshing them around occassionally, shaking them and letting them dry out and then a little WD-40 (there's probably a tiny hole on the back. You probably have semi-enclosed Kluson-style tuners, similar to your first tuner-pic but with metal or simple-oval ivroid-plastic buttons). Sometimes that will work, just a lot of years' worth of dust, dirt, oil-crud, etc inside.)

[KaZu]

thats pretty cool