[deamhain]

Conversation at last night's lesson went along the lines of:

Teach: "Let's recap what we've done chord-wise so far"
Me: " E, Em D...." etc
Teach: "Ok, let's have a look at F"
Me: "AAAAAARGHH, no, no, mercy please. Polis! Mammy! Daddy!"

Thankfully, like our friend DADFAD, he is one for building up to the full barre-chord rather than going for it straight off.

Now I'm practicing the pick-trickle-pick-pick-pick bits in House of the rising sun as my "'F' practice piece" as it has a few changes in and out of the chord.

I fell over my own fingers at one point though in changing from F to Am. I thought it would be a good idea to just move the third finger along a fret - all well and good but I kept forgetting to lift my first finger back off the 'e'. Then it totally threw me moving from Am to C because my second and third fingers were reversed from where I would normally have them. I've reverted to my normal Am fingering!

I'm glad I love a challenge!

[stuartmerenbloom]

Keep up the good work. It took me a long time to barr and I taught myself. Try some finger exercises like squeezing a tennis ball.

[wannalearn01]

Sine this is already talking about barres:

Where do you usually put your thumb when barring?

Sometimes i can barre and sometimes I can't...maybe my wimp hands just need some more strength.

Anyone have a exercise that I could practice?

I have a listing of all the barre chords, but I have no clue what order I should play them in. Ideally, I would like something that is full strums, so I can make sure I am fully barring them. Or should I start with just barring my indexing and sliding?

Barre chords are my weakness and I need to start to work them into things now!

Thanks for any and all help.

T^roy

[dadfad]

Sine this is already talking about barres:

Where do you usually put your thumb when barring?

Sometimes i can barre and sometimes I can't...maybe my wimp hands just need some more strength. 

Anyone have a exercise that I could practice?

I have a listing of all the barre chords, but I have no clue what order I should play them in. Ideally, I would like something that is full strums, so I can make sure I am fully barring them. Or should I start with just barring my indexing and sliding?

Barre chords are my weakness and I need to start to work them into things now!

Thanks for any and all help.

T^roy

I put my thumb where God intended it to be....on the 6th-string tonic fret!


Occassionally I'll use a full-barred-with-the-index barre-chord, but I've found that generally you really only want one of two choices in a barre-chord...a bassy-sounding chord (where I'll use my thumb on the 6 and finger the 5,4,3) or a treblier-sounding chord (where I'll finger the 1,2,3,4). For those rare times I actually want a full-barre, I'll use the more conventional index-across-the-whole-neck type. (Actually, you can use the thumb for the full-barre too most times, depending on where you're going next or what you're coming out of.). Best advice, learn to play them all three ways, but for me and the stuff I usually play, the use of the thumb is the dominant method.

[wannalearn01]

Aww

See I rarely use my thumb for anything right now...even though I have uber longer fingers, when I use my thumb and try to wrap it up and over, I end up inadvertantly(sp?) muting the bottom e.

I'll try using the thumb though...just so I know I am getting this right:

F Major barre

E--1- F note
A--3- C note
D--3- F note
G--2- A note
B--1- (C note)
e--1- (F note)

Mainly focuse on the top 4 strings, right?

Then use the following fingerings:
Bassy

E-Thumb
A->Middle or ring
D->Middle or ring
G-Pointer

What is an example where you would use the bottom four strings?
All the barres I could find had 5th or 6th string roots*

T^roy
*I might not know the right terminology.

[dadfad]

Yes, that's it. I'd use it more likely in a situation playing with a second guitarist, who might be playing more treblier lead lines. Or solo during vocal parts where I'd prefer to just have a less full-sounding chord, or in fingerstyle moving through different voicings or transpositions of the same basic chord....like from am F into a series of diminished chords subtituted in the F position (like the IV position in a Key-of-C tune, etc). Often in fingerstyle it helps to concieve the fretboard as split down the middle (roughly) into a bass-side and a treble-side where, in effect, you are also playing rhythm to your own lead. Not just with barre-chords but others as well. Particularly with the F-chord, where the 5-string can be left open (A-note) and it's part of the F-chord triad (F A C). Also in the F-chord, I often like to hammer into it on the 3rd-string (from G to A, an Fsus2 103011 to an F 103211 for example). A straight common barre-chord seems too...I don't know.....confining, unless you're playing just straight strumming rhythms. A thumb and one finger (or two) can provide a barred bass-chord while at the same time leaving two other fingers free to do other things on the "treble-side" of the neck.

[wannalearn01]

Awesome, awesome!

I would have never thought about leaving a string open...mainly because when I think "barre" I think the straight barre chord....cus thats all I knew about...

Thanks for the new ideas! Can't wait to get home and try it some!

T^roy

[deamhain]

Yes, that's it. I'd use it more likely in a situation playing with a second guitarist, who might be playing more treblier lead lines. Or solo during vocal parts where I'd prefer to just have a less full-sounding chord, or in fingerstyle moving through different voicings or transpositions of the same basic chord....like from am F into a series of diminished chords subtituted in the F position (like the IV position in a Key-of-C tune, etc). Often in fingerstyle it helps to concieve the fretboard as split down the middle (roughly) into a bass-side and a treble-side where, in effect, you are also playing rhythm to your own lead. Not just with barre-chords but others as well. Particularly with the F-chord, where the 5-string can be left open (A-note) and it's part of the F-chord triad (F A C). Also in the F-chord, I often like to hammer into it on the 3rd-string (from G to A, an Fsus2 103011 to an F 103211 for example). A straight common barre-chord seems too...I don't know.....confining, unless you're playing just straight strumming rhythms. A thumb and one finger (or two) can provide a barred bass-chord while at the same time leaving two other fingers free to do other things on the "treble-side" of the neck.

Sometimes John causes my eyes to glaze, my head to go fuzzy and my ears to ring! One of these days I'll understand that lot.

[deamhain]

...even though I have uber longer fingers,

I have fingers like mars bars...this may be a drawback in a guitarist.

[wannalearn01]

...even though I have uber longer fingers,

I have fingers like mars bars...this may be a drawback in a guitarist.

You mean chocolatey and fill with nugget

T^roy

[KrAzY_BoB]

(from G to A, an Fsus2 103011 to an F 103211 for example).

how do you manage to play the 3rd string open
iv been trying
or should it be 103111

[dadfad]

I play it like this......

102011
T0R0II

...then I'll hammer into the major with my middle. If you want, for that chord you can play it the more "conventional" way too....

122011
TRP0II

....and still hammer the 3-string into the major (if you want to of course. In some country-ish acoustic tunes it gives a nice gentle vaguely pedal-steel or slack-key piano feel to the chord. I use it, for example, in Hank Williams' (Sr) "I Can't Help It If I'm Still In Love With You" which I do in the key of C when I change to the F).


Using the thumb is slightly awkward at first if you aren't used to it, but it soon becomes quite natural.

[wannalearn01]

I am trying to do the barres with the thumb and I am having difficulties with my ring/middle fingers being able to go where I need them...does this use some weird muscles that I don't have yet?

How do you position your hand when you are doing these?

Mine was like if I picked up the guitar at the neck, with the back of the neck being in the palm of my hand. Then the thumb on top string, index on the two bottom and then my hand is almost too "sideways" to reach my fingers where they need to go...

Do you have you palm flat on the back of the neck or how do you do that?

Thanks

T^roy

[Jon_Mac]

yeah it took me a second I got it. Although I had to put a lot of presure on my thumb in order to get that note in there but I might be having that trouble because im using a classical lol.

[dadfad]

It gets really easy really fast once you start doing it. In no time you'll be using your thumb on TWO string when you want! Like a Bb. Or two-finger (index and thumb) Bb9ths X10111 or 110111. Being able to use your thumb effectively is almost like adding another finger to your hand!

[randomorwhat]

I could never bar well; I've given up by now. My wrist is too malco-ordinated

[dorio]

I could never bar well; I've given up by now. My wrist is too malco-ordinated 

If you don't play an F barre, how will you play a Bb minor. Don't give up mate !