Hi all, I have a Simon and Patrick SP6, when I first got it I had it set up with a very low action, the problem is that silk and steel strings (flexible and low tension strings) and also higher gauge strings cause fret buzz.
I also hear higher action makes for better sound, so how do I go about doing this... Do I need to pay someone to do this, the last thing I want to do is break it!
Thanks
Full Version: I want to raise my action, but how?
Well since everyone else seems to be ignoring you, heres my thought! The safest way of doing it (if youve already checked that the truss rod/neck relief isnt the problem, and your frets are level), would be to buy a new saddle. You generally buy them made a little higher than standard so you can file it down to the right height for you yourself. If youre in the uk, check out an ebay seller by the name of treeroot4 for some quality saddles. He makes them to order too if you have specific requirements.
QUOTE (monkeybutler @ Jun 18 2008, 04:43 PM) 
Well since everyone else seems to be ignoring you, heres my thought! The safest way of doing it (if youve already checked that the truss rod/neck relief isnt the problem, and your frets are level), would be to buy a new saddle. You generally buy them made a little higher than standard so you can file it down to the right height for you yourself. If youre in the uk, check out an ebay seller by the name of treeroot4 for some quality saddles. He makes them to order too if you have specific requirements.
Good advice. (I saw his topic but had to find my as-usual long-winded post and have been pretty busy here in my office.)
Like Monkeybutler said, if everything else is okay a new saddle carved a bit higher might do it. You can also "shim" your old saddle. An easier fix, and can be about as good as a new saddle anyway if done correctly. Several companies use shimming for saddle adjustments on brand-new guitars.
From an old topic...
QUOTE
Saddle Shimming
Here's an easy way to tell first if shimming can help. (This is only a test so don't worry about tone, etc at this point.) Loosen the "offending" string(s). Take a tiny piece of thin plastic, like from a milk container or plastic bottle. Loosen your strings enough to slide a tiny strip under the string(s) at the saddle (Between the strings and the saddle.). Don't let the edge of the plastic extend beyond the edge (sound-hole side) of the saddle. Tighten the string(s) back to pitch. Try them. If the buzz has stopped, a higher saddle or shimming will probably correct the problem. Here's the copy of the old post to do that...
Here's a simpler fix. Take a tin can top
and a pair of sharp scissors or tin-snips. Cut out a strip a little
shorter and a bit narrower (approx. 1/8 inch wide) than your saddle. This will
probably curl up as you cut it. Straighten it out (tap it with a hammer
on a block of wood, etc). Be careful. This is sharp! Loosen or remove
your strings. Remove the saddle from the bridge. Put the little strip
under it (If it's too wide, don't force it or try to trim it narrower,
just make it over again. Much easier.) Replace the saddle and strings.
They will be about 10/1000 of an inch higher. Thin brass works best but most people
don't have that laying around. A tin can won't have a noticeable difference
from brass, but whatever you use, it should be made of metal to transfer the
vibrations back into the wood properly. Good luck.
----------------------------------
Here's an easy way to tell first if shimming can help. (This is only a test so don't worry about tone, etc at this point.) Loosen the "offending" string(s). Take a tiny piece of thin plastic, like from a milk container or plastic bottle. Loosen your strings enough to slide a tiny strip under the string(s) at the saddle (Between the strings and the saddle.). Don't let the edge of the plastic extend beyond the edge (sound-hole side) of the saddle. Tighten the string(s) back to pitch. Try them. If the buzz has stopped, a higher saddle or shimming will probably correct the problem. Here's the copy of the old post to do that...
Here's a simpler fix. Take a tin can top
and a pair of sharp scissors or tin-snips. Cut out a strip a little
shorter and a bit narrower (approx. 1/8 inch wide) than your saddle. This will
probably curl up as you cut it. Straighten it out (tap it with a hammer
on a block of wood, etc). Be careful. This is sharp! Loosen or remove
your strings. Remove the saddle from the bridge. Put the little strip
under it (If it's too wide, don't force it or try to trim it narrower,
just make it over again. Much easier.) Replace the saddle and strings.
They will be about 10/1000 of an inch higher. Thin brass works best but most people
don't have that laying around. A tin can won't have a noticeable difference
from brass, but whatever you use, it should be made of metal to transfer the
vibrations back into the wood properly. Good luck.
----------------------------------
The wording in your query confuses me a little (Your use of the word "higher" gauge.). Is it that silk-and-steel strings, having less tension, cause buzz and also (the confusing part) heavier-gauge/thicker strings? Or do you mean thinner strings (which, like silk-and-steels, also have less tension). Thicker gauge strings (having more tension) should tend to increase neck-bow (as well as neck-body joint bow), thus less likely to buzz. The decreased tension (and neck bow) from s-and-s's or thinner strings frequently causes it.
If the buzz is more in the middle of the neck (like maybe 3rd to maybe 8th fret) it's possible just a slight tightening of the truss-rod might stop the buzz. (Start with about a 1/8 of a turn clockwise, wait for an hour or more as it sometimes takes a while for wood to reconfigure its shape. If it has helped but not stopped it, try another 1/8 turn. Don't exceed 1/2 turn altogether, assuming your guitar was fine to negin with.)
If the buzz is more in the higher frets, say maybe eighth or more, shimming the saddle (or re-carving a new one) is more likely to help.
Sometimes it takes a combination of both to set your action exactly how you want it. As far as higher strings giving more volume, that's true, but not a great deal more unless you wanted to raise them higher than what a reasonable action would be. The best height is whatever gives you the best ability to play at your best. A possible slight increase in volume isn't worth fighting with higher strings as you play or the intonation problems that begin to occur when a string is held down against a fret from higher above it.
To properly raise or lower the action on an acoustic guitar one must invest in getting a new bridge saddle and nut made.why? after the neck adjustment has sat for a few days and taken, the string height can only be adjusted properly by the amount of relief measured by fretting at the 1st fret and pressing down on the string to see how high or low the string is off of the 2nd fret ,there should be movement downwards,if not ,the action is to low causing buzzing ,to much movement in most cases means string or action will be higher and harder to chord further down the neck , a good luthier will determine your preference for action and make a good saddle and nut to compensate and ste the action for you ,usually around 1 to 150.00 in price,but worth it, because a guitar that doesn't play well will not get played often,I hope this helps,Greg.
If you don't know how to file down your saddle, do not attempt to do so. You can get someone else to do it for you, but your best bet is to just buy a new one that is a fraction higher.
When my wife attempted to learn guitar, she went w/ silk/steels...OMG imo they suck.
The only proper way to raise the action on an acoustic guitar is to have a new nut made, the nut is what determines the strings height off of the frets, ( slots actually within the nut) and a new bridge saddle. nopt a filed down old one, shimming may help but will not properly be adequate. See a good luither.easy fix....Greg.
It shouldn't need a new nut (assuming the original one isn't damaged and was okay to start with. (A nut only influences the height of open strings.) The best way is of course to carve a new saddle, but shimming if properly done using the right material (brass is best) will work pretty well.
From an old post...
From an old post...
QUOTE
Saddle Shimming
Here's an easy way to tell first if shimming can help. (This is only a test so don't worry about tone, etc at this point.) Loosen the "offending" string(s). Take a tiny piece of thin plastic, like from a milk container or plastic bottle. Loosen your strings enough to slide a tiny strip under the string(s) at the saddle. Don't let the edge of the plastic extend beyond the edge of the saddle. Tighten the string(s) back to pitch. Try them. If the buzz has stopped, a higher saddle or shimming will probably correct the problem. Here's the copy of the old post...
First, check the fret. Look closely to see if it's lifted slightly. If so,
smooth it down a hair with an emery finger-nail board (unless you want to
remove, replace and re-dress it). If it hasn't, repacing the saddle as
mentioned above would do it (as MIGHT a slight truss-rod adjustment
(depends on why it's happening).
Here's a simpler fix. Take a tin can top
and a pair of sharp scissors or tin-snips. Cut out a strip a little
shorter and a bit narrower (appx 1/8 inch) than your saddle. This will
probably curl up as you cut it. Straighten it out (tap it with a hammer
on a block of wood, etc). Be careful. This is sharp!. Loosen or remove
your strings. Remove the saddle from the bridge. Put the little strip
under it (if it's too wide, don't force it or try to trim it narrower,
just make it over again. Much easier.) Replace the saddle and strings.
They will be about 10/1000 higher. Thin brass works best but most people
don't have that laying around. A tin can won't have a noticeable difference
from brass, but whatever you use, it must be made of metal to transfer the
vibrations back into the wood properly. Good luck.
----------------------------------
Lowering The Saddle
Lowering the saddle is easiest done from the bottom usually. Remove it (just loosening the strings is usually enough) and take it out. You can usually just slide it out, pulling it gently with a pair of small pliers or even just your fingers. (If you use pliers you might want to protect it and the bridge from marring with a bit of cloth or masking tape. Sometimes upon loosening the strings, you made to slide another object between the strings and the top to remove the pressure on the saddle. (Something that won't scratch the top and spans the strings like a plastic marker-pen set on a piece of cloth or paper and slid back towards the saddle works.) With a straight-edge draw a pencil line across the bottom as sort of a reference to see how much you've taken off while you're working on it. Take a large file and lay it on a table or bench and run the saddle smoothly and evenly across it longways, making sure to keep the saddle both perpendicular and horizontal (unless you WISH to remove more off one side than the other). Check it by putting it back in place and tightening a couple of strings (usually say the 1 and 6 are enough to give you a good idea). Be careful not to remove too much, it's a lot easier to check a saddle a couple of times than it is to take off too much and now have buzzes and need to replace and recarve the whole saddle (a lot harder than lowering it). Anyway, I hope that helps.
Here's an easy way to tell first if shimming can help. (This is only a test so don't worry about tone, etc at this point.) Loosen the "offending" string(s). Take a tiny piece of thin plastic, like from a milk container or plastic bottle. Loosen your strings enough to slide a tiny strip under the string(s) at the saddle. Don't let the edge of the plastic extend beyond the edge of the saddle. Tighten the string(s) back to pitch. Try them. If the buzz has stopped, a higher saddle or shimming will probably correct the problem. Here's the copy of the old post...
First, check the fret. Look closely to see if it's lifted slightly. If so,
smooth it down a hair with an emery finger-nail board (unless you want to
remove, replace and re-dress it). If it hasn't, repacing the saddle as
mentioned above would do it (as MIGHT a slight truss-rod adjustment
(depends on why it's happening).
Here's a simpler fix. Take a tin can top
and a pair of sharp scissors or tin-snips. Cut out a strip a little
shorter and a bit narrower (appx 1/8 inch) than your saddle. This will
probably curl up as you cut it. Straighten it out (tap it with a hammer
on a block of wood, etc). Be careful. This is sharp!. Loosen or remove
your strings. Remove the saddle from the bridge. Put the little strip
under it (if it's too wide, don't force it or try to trim it narrower,
just make it over again. Much easier.) Replace the saddle and strings.
They will be about 10/1000 higher. Thin brass works best but most people
don't have that laying around. A tin can won't have a noticeable difference
from brass, but whatever you use, it must be made of metal to transfer the
vibrations back into the wood properly. Good luck.
----------------------------------
Lowering The Saddle
Lowering the saddle is easiest done from the bottom usually. Remove it (just loosening the strings is usually enough) and take it out. You can usually just slide it out, pulling it gently with a pair of small pliers or even just your fingers. (If you use pliers you might want to protect it and the bridge from marring with a bit of cloth or masking tape. Sometimes upon loosening the strings, you made to slide another object between the strings and the top to remove the pressure on the saddle. (Something that won't scratch the top and spans the strings like a plastic marker-pen set on a piece of cloth or paper and slid back towards the saddle works.) With a straight-edge draw a pencil line across the bottom as sort of a reference to see how much you've taken off while you're working on it. Take a large file and lay it on a table or bench and run the saddle smoothly and evenly across it longways, making sure to keep the saddle both perpendicular and horizontal (unless you WISH to remove more off one side than the other). Check it by putting it back in place and tightening a couple of strings (usually say the 1 and 6 are enough to give you a good idea). Be careful not to remove too much, it's a lot easier to check a saddle a couple of times than it is to take off too much and now have buzzes and need to replace and recarve the whole saddle (a lot harder than lowering it). Anyway, I hope that helps.
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