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'Music' thats not music


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#41 Irenic Retral

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Posted 02 May 2006 - 01:20 PM

QUOTE (UFWHOA @ May 1 2006, 06:55 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
music is an art, art is a form of expression and creativity. Anyone can say what they do is an art, and they could be correct even if we don't agree. It's a matter of opinion and interpretation. It's rarely ever a fact to say "that's not an art". Mainly because it depends on how you're looking at things. For instance, a guy making a pizza is not much of an art right? Well how about if you think about the time, skill, work and thoughts and standards that are put into the pizza. Even a guy writing a legal document could be considered an art, sure it's not so abstract and vividly creative as a picasso painting, but still. That's why I believe rap/hip-hop is a part of music. I don't like all songs, but there are plenty of good/great rap/hip-hop artists. Hey, even banging on a garbage can lid with a doll can be musical and artistic. I just probably wouldn't like it very much. hehe.


Edit: I think this should be in the discussion forums by the way.


You're right. But without even going into that much dept, Rap and Rock are not alike, but they are both music. It's like saying a dog is an animal, but a cat isn't. People who say Rap isn't music.. I have to disagree, just because you don't like something doesn't mean you have to make yourself look like an idiot. I don't like rap, but I know it's a form of music. I'm not going to walk around saying rap isn't music, when 50% of the (most likely more)US is calling it music.

You don't like rap music that's all. Thank you kindly.

Edited by Irenic Retral, 02 May 2006 - 01:21 PM.


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#42 dadfad

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Posted 02 May 2006 - 01:23 PM

What it comes down to is this:

The guys here who like rap are all gonna say "It's politically aware; it's a new evolution in music; there's "good" rap and crap-rap; Yo' mama's mama said the same thing about rock'n'roll, etc, etc."

The guys here who don't like rap are all gonna say "It isn't even music; it's all sh!tty; nothing but noisy Eubonics and wigga-wannbe's; etc, etc."


So who's right? I'll ask Jesus what he thinks the next time I talk to him. Meanwhile, it's time to once again revive....



The Dadfad Rap...


Screeech (scritchy-scratch scritchy-scratch)

Bump-bum...

Screeech (scritchy-scratch scritchy-scratch)

Bump-bum...

Screeech (scritchy-scratch scritchy-scratch)

Bump-bum...

Zzzzzzzzzzzzrrrrrrrcchhhhhhhhhhhhh..........

Zhhhooooommm-a-wham-a-Bamm-Bamm.....




Hey, home-boy
Whazzup wit chew?
Dizzig that C-rap you listnin' too.
It's shizzat, its sizzad.
It ain't no good.
It's noise polution in the neighborhood.

Don't care if I try to listen intently
I still say that it ain't no Bently.
It's still jus disco, like San Francisco.
Don't care if you bread it an' fry it in Crisco.

So take sum advice from D-fad Master
Grab that Gibson or Telecaster
It's dusty, rusty, worse than musty
Like Ludwig said to ol' Tchaicovsky
So blow off the cobwebs
Don' cha hear the news
The world still rocks to the muthafukkin Blues





(Yazz yazz, indeed it does.............) wink.gif

Un-plugged is not the same as never-was-plugged-in-to-begin-with.

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When the roll is called up yonder he'll be there...


#43 tape's

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Posted 02 May 2006 - 01:24 PM

QUOTE (systemdelsilencio @ May 2 2006, 04:13 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Rap is technically not music. Music is composed of four elements: harmony, melody, rythm, and dynamics. If you know rap you'll notice one of these is lacking in rap. Lets see if you can guess which one.


What about traditional music that comes from other parts of the world? Some of them are not always composed with those elements present.

Rap has harmony; bass with synth/etc. Not a "classical" harmony but it's still a harmony.
Melody in chorus and in bass / synth line. Melody is also present in the actual rap and backing vocal lines.
Rhythm & Dynamics are obviously not lacking in rap.

#44 systemdelsilencio

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Posted 02 May 2006 - 01:35 PM

QUOTE (noodle69 @ May 2 2006, 05:20 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
QUOTE (systemdelsilencio @ May 2 2006, 04:13 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Rap is technically not music. Music is composed of four elements: harmony, melody, rythm, and dynamics. If you know rap you'll notice one of these is lacking in rap. Lets see if you can guess which one.


who said music consists of these 'elements' and has to have all 4 ?

if it has 3 , its not music ?

rubbish !!!!

which book or google site was that from ?

you can't spell !!

does that mean your words mean nothing ?


Which of the words I wrote is mispelled?None!
Which book or google was that from? From a lot of books, and I am sure it is in thousands of sites.
And rap lacks the element of harmony, an element all music must have to be what technically is referred as to music. Some artists have implemented harmony, but the rap in itslef does not require harmony and thus is without any implementations it is not music.

Hip hop on the other hand IS music, implementing the elements of music.



QUOTE (tape's @ May 2 2006, 05:24 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
QUOTE (systemdelsilencio @ May 2 2006, 04:13 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Rap is technically not music. Music is composed of four elements: harmony, melody, rythm, and dynamics. If you know rap you'll notice one of these is lacking in rap. Lets see if you can guess which one.


What about traditional music that comes from other parts of the world? Some of them are not always composed with those elements present.

Rap has harmony; bass with synth/etc. Not a "classical" harmony but it's still a harmony.
Melody in chorus and in bass / synth line. Melody is also present in the actual rap and backing vocal lines.
Rhythm & Dynamics are obviously not lacking in rap.



Yeah. but Rap in itself does not have harmony. Some artists chose to add to rap by adding harmony, but harmony is not a requirement of rap music. On the other hand you can't have rock, metal, classical, hiphop... without those elements.

#45 dadfad

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Posted 02 May 2006 - 01:35 PM

Similar things have been around for a long time. There was a tradition in the old Negroe communities called "Toasters" (very similar to what came to be called "The Dozens") where it was almost a competition to stand up in a bar or party and give a rhyming toast. These "toasts" became very long, often lasting ten or fifteen minutes, telling stories, or whatever. I used to have an extensive collection of toasters I'd compliled from old black men. My favorite was "The Monkey and the Baboon" which was a long story about the meeting of a pool-shark monkey and a card-shark baboon at an animal's after-hours club. There even developed "characters" used and re-used and found commonly in several, like "Shine" or "Dyn-o-mite" who were able to out-smart "the man" or whatever. Often the lyrics were violent and obscene, but almost always funny. The tradition developed far beyond the "yo mamma..." toasts that started it. The term "the dozens" refers to a simplified and shortened version of Toasters, where only twelve rhyming lines were used. So an extremely similar tradition existed long before the "c-rap gangsta" came on the scene.

The white culture had a similar (if not differently directed) tradition, developing in the old beatnik "beat" generation, where poetry was recited to the beat of bogo drums, or with a small combo, sometimes only a bass, or a bass and flute or sax, being played behind it to emphasise its lines, word and rhythms. This is the tradition where Dylan's "Subteranean Homesick Blues" came from.

So rap isn't new. Just a new face on an old theme. However, same as with the Toasters or the Beat-Poetry mentioned above, it isn't really music just because it has little snippets or samples of music in the back-ground going on. To most cultural-ethno anthropologists, it's an oral-thing, not a music-thing.

Un-plugged is not the same as never-was-plugged-in-to-begin-with.

jacksontz.jpg

 

John Jackson -My Teacher and My Old Friend

When the roll is called up yonder he'll be there...


#46 tape's

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Posted 02 May 2006 - 01:39 PM

QUOTE (systemdelsilencio @ May 2 2006, 04:35 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
QUOTE (noodle69 @ May 2 2006, 05:20 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

QUOTE (systemdelsilencio @ May 2 2006, 04:13 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Rap is technically not music. Music is composed of four elements: harmony, melody, rythm, and dynamics. If you know rap you'll notice one of these is lacking in rap. Lets see if you can guess which one.


who said music consists of these 'elements' and has to have all 4 ?

if it has 3 , its not music ?

rubbish !!!!

which book or google site was that from ?

you can't spell !!

does that mean your words mean nothing ?


Which of the words I wrote is mispelled?None!
Which book or google was that from? From a lot of books, and I am sure it is in thousands of sites.
And rap lacks the element of harmony, an element all music must have to be what technically is referred as to music. Some artists have implemented harmony, but the rap in itslef does not require harmony and thus is without any implementations it is not music.

Hip hop on the other hand IS music, implementing the elements of music.



QUOTE (tape's @ May 2 2006, 05:24 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
QUOTE (systemdelsilencio @ May 2 2006, 04:13 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Rap is technically not music. Music is composed of four elements: harmony, melody, rythm, and dynamics. If you know rap you'll notice one of these is lacking in rap. Lets see if you can guess which one.


What about traditional music that comes from other parts of the world? Some of them are not always composed with those elements present.

Rap has harmony; bass with synth/etc. Not a "classical" harmony but it's still a harmony.
Melody in chorus and in bass / synth line. Melody is also present in the actual rap and backing vocal lines.
Rhythm & Dynamics are obviously not lacking in rap.



Yeah. but Rap in itself does not have harmony. Some artists chose to add to rap by adding harmony, but harmony is not a requirement of rap music. On the other hand you can't have rock, metal, classical, hiphop... without those elements.


Then unaccompanied guitar solos wouldn't be a music right?
Same as Solo parts of Concertos from good ol' classical music?

#47 systemdelsilencio

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Posted 02 May 2006 - 01:59 PM

QUOTE (tape's @ May 2 2006, 05:39 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Then unaccompanied guitar solos wouldn't be a music right?
Same as Solo parts of Concertos from good ol' classical music?


But rock does not need those solos to be considered rock. Rock and classical can be without these solos and still be rock/classical. Just like rap can be without harmony and still be rap.

#48 Grandpa FrankyZ

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Posted 02 May 2006 - 02:01 PM

QUOTE (tape's @ May 2 2006, 10:39 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
QUOTE (systemdelsilencio @ May 2 2006, 04:35 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

QUOTE (noodle69 @ May 2 2006, 05:20 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

QUOTE (systemdelsilencio @ May 2 2006, 04:13 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Rap is technically not music. Music is composed of four elements: harmony, melody, rythm, and dynamics. If you know rap you'll notice one of these is lacking in rap. Lets see if you can guess which one.


who said music consists of these 'elements' and has to have all 4 ?

if it has 3 , its not music ?

rubbish !!!!

which book or google site was that from ?

you can't spell !!

does that mean your words mean nothing ?


Which of the words I wrote is mispelled?None!
Which book or google was that from? From a lot of books, and I am sure it is in thousands of sites.
And rap lacks the element of harmony, an element all music must have to be what technically is referred as to music. Some artists have implemented harmony, but the rap in itslef does not require harmony and thus is without any implementations it is not music.

Hip hop on the other hand IS music, implementing the elements of music.



QUOTE (tape's @ May 2 2006, 05:24 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
QUOTE (systemdelsilencio @ May 2 2006, 04:13 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Rap is technically not music. Music is composed of four elements: harmony, melody, rythm, and dynamics. If you know rap you'll notice one of these is lacking in rap. Lets see if you can guess which one.


What about traditional music that comes from other parts of the world? Some of them are not always composed with those elements present.

Rap has harmony; bass with synth/etc. Not a "classical" harmony but it's still a harmony.
Melody in chorus and in bass / synth line. Melody is also present in the actual rap and backing vocal lines.
Rhythm & Dynamics are obviously not lacking in rap.



Yeah. but Rap in itself does not have harmony. Some artists chose to add to rap by adding harmony, but harmony is not a requirement of rap music. On the other hand you can't have rock, metal, classical, hiphop... without those elements.


Then unaccompanied guitar solos wouldn't be a music right?
Same as Solo parts of Concertos from good ol' classical music?


Beat me to it, that was what i was gonna post cheers.gif




@ John. I got a copy of the Monkey and the Baboon on my laptop, can`t remember who it was by, but it`s brilliant guitar.gif

#49 noodle69

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Posted 02 May 2006 - 02:08 PM

QUOTE (tape's @ May 2 2006, 04:39 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
QUOTE (systemdelsilencio @ May 2 2006, 04:35 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

QUOTE (noodle69 @ May 2 2006, 05:20 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

QUOTE (systemdelsilencio @ May 2 2006, 04:13 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Rap is technically not music. Music is composed of four elements: harmony, melody, rythm, and dynamics. If you know rap you'll notice one of these is lacking in rap. Lets see if you can guess which one.


who said music consists of these 'elements' and has to have all 4 ?

if it has 3 , its not music ?

rubbish !!!!

which book or google site was that from ?

you can't spell !!

does that mean your words mean nothing ?


Which of the words I wrote is mispelled?None!
Which book or google was that from? From a lot of books, and I am sure it is in thousands of sites.
And rap lacks the element of harmony, an element all music must have to be what technically is referred as to music. Some artists have implemented harmony, but the rap in itslef does not require harmony and thus is without any implementations it is not music.

Hip hop on the other hand IS music, implementing the elements of music.



QUOTE (tape's @ May 2 2006, 05:24 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
QUOTE (systemdelsilencio @ May 2 2006, 04:13 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Rap is technically not music. Music is composed of four elements: harmony, melody, rythm, and dynamics. If you know rap you'll notice one of these is lacking in rap. Lets see if you can guess which one.


What about traditional music that comes from other parts of the world? Some of them are not always composed with those elements present.

Rap has harmony; bass with synth/etc. Not a "classical" harmony but it's still a harmony.
Melody in chorus and in bass / synth line. Melody is also present in the actual rap and backing vocal lines.
Rhythm & Dynamics are obviously not lacking in rap.



Yeah. but Rap in itself does not have harmony. Some artists chose to add to rap by adding harmony, but harmony is not a requirement of rap music. On the other hand you can't have rock, metal, classical, hiphop... without those elements.


Then unaccompanied guitar solos wouldn't be a music right?
Same as Solo parts of Concertos from good ol' classical music?

i was .... asking questions ! but you did spell rhythm wrong !
-systemdelsilencio . hehehe - yeah its pedantic !

think maybe , one of the problems alot of people have with music comes from attempting to define what it actually is .

it's not worth the effort as there will always be people who disagree !

i like some rap , some of it has harmony , when its needed , some doesn't !

are there any real rules to music ?
i dont think so ! - but that's my view and i'm happy with it . no-one can enlighten me in any other way !
rules are to be broken......or bent ! its an evolutionary thing , but that's not taught in alot of schools anymore , i'm told !

ever listened to einsturzende neubaten ?

or a violin playing solo ?

a city , an engine , escalators , breaking glass , all contain elements of music !

if you close your mind with other peoples ideas of what music is , then you will only ever play other peoples music !
remember that i love you - no matter what i say

#50 Grandpa FrankyZ

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Posted 02 May 2006 - 02:22 PM

QUOTE (noodle69 @ May 2 2006, 11:08 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
QUOTE (tape's @ May 2 2006, 04:39 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

QUOTE (systemdelsilencio @ May 2 2006, 04:35 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

QUOTE (noodle69 @ May 2 2006, 05:20 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

QUOTE (systemdelsilencio @ May 2 2006, 04:13 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Rap is technically not music. Music is composed of four elements: harmony, melody, rythm, and dynamics. If you know rap you'll notice one of these is lacking in rap. Lets see if you can guess which one.


who said music consists of these 'elements' and has to have all 4 ?

if it has 3 , its not music ?

rubbish !!!!

which book or google site was that from ?

you can't spell !!

does that mean your words mean nothing ?


Which of the words I wrote is mispelled?None!
Which book or google was that from? From a lot of books, and I am sure it is in thousands of sites.
And rap lacks the element of harmony, an element all music must have to be what technically is referred as to music. Some artists have implemented harmony, but the rap in itslef does not require harmony and thus is without any implementations it is not music.

Hip hop on the other hand IS music, implementing the elements of music.



QUOTE (tape's @ May 2 2006, 05:24 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
QUOTE (systemdelsilencio @ May 2 2006, 04:13 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Rap is technically not music. Music is composed of four elements: harmony, melody, rythm, and dynamics. If you know rap you'll notice one of these is lacking in rap. Lets see if you can guess which one.


What about traditional music that comes from other parts of the world? Some of them are not always composed with those elements present.

Rap has harmony; bass with synth/etc. Not a "classical" harmony but it's still a harmony.
Melody in chorus and in bass / synth line. Melody is also present in the actual rap and backing vocal lines.
Rhythm & Dynamics are obviously not lacking in rap.



Yeah. but Rap in itself does not have harmony. Some artists chose to add to rap by adding harmony, but harmony is not a requirement of rap music. On the other hand you can't have rock, metal, classical, hiphop... without those elements.


Then unaccompanied guitar solos wouldn't be a music right?
Same as Solo parts of Concertos from good ol' classical music?

i was .... asking questions ! but you did spell rhythm wrong !
-systemdelsilencio . hehehe - yeah its pedantic !

think maybe , one of the problems alot of people have with music comes from attempting to define what it actually is .

it's not worth the effort as there will always be people who disagree !

i like some rap , some of it has harmony , when its needed , some doesn't !

are there any real rules to music ?
i dont think so ! - but that's my view and i'm happy with it . no-one can enlighten me in any other way !
rules are to be broken......or bent ! its an evolutionary thing , but that's not taught in alot of schools anymore , i'm told !

ever listened to einsturzende neubaten ?

or a violin playing solo ?

a city , an engine , escalators , breaking glass , all contain elements of music !

if you close your mind with other peoples ideas of what music is , then you will only ever play other peoples music !


Word!!! I agree with every word of that. I could not have put it better myself, music to my ears that is. biggrin.gif

#51 dadfad

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Posted 02 May 2006 - 02:26 PM

QUOTE (frankyz84 @ May 2 2006, 06:01 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
.....John. I got a copy of the Monkey and the Baboon on my laptop, can`t remember who it was by, but it`s brilliant guitar.gif


Rick, it was an old negro toaster. The guitarist Paul Geremia recorded a tune several years ago speaking the words as he played (tremendous acoustic fingerstyle) guitar behind it. I've never heard of anyone else doing it so that might be what you have.

Un-plugged is not the same as never-was-plugged-in-to-begin-with.

jacksontz.jpg

 

John Jackson -My Teacher and My Old Friend

When the roll is called up yonder he'll be there...


#52 Grandpa FrankyZ

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Posted 02 May 2006 - 02:29 PM

QUOTE (dadfad @ May 2 2006, 11:26 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
QUOTE (frankyz84 @ May 2 2006, 06:01 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

.....John. I got a copy of the Monkey and the Baboon on my laptop, can`t remember who it was by, but it`s brilliant guitar.gif


Rick, it was an old negro toaster. The guitarist Paul Geremia recorded a tune several years ago speaking the words as he played (tremendous acoustic fingerstyle) guitar behind it. I've never heard of anyone else doing it so that might be what you have.



It is, i have just been checking those tapes you sent me, and it was on the Paul Geremia tape. I recorded all those tapes onto my laptop. I love that song, gonna stick it back in the car tommorow. Is there any tab for it?

#53 systemdelsilencio

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Posted 02 May 2006 - 02:49 PM

QUOTE (noodle69 @ May 2 2006, 06:08 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
QUOTE (tape's @ May 2 2006, 04:39 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

QUOTE (systemdelsilencio @ May 2 2006, 04:35 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

QUOTE (noodle69 @ May 2 2006, 05:20 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

QUOTE (systemdelsilencio @ May 2 2006, 04:13 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Rap is technically not music. Music is composed of four elements: harmony, melody, rythm, and dynamics. If you know rap you'll notice one of these is lacking in rap. Lets see if you can guess which one.


who said music consists of these 'elements' and has to have all 4 ?

if it has 3 , its not music ?

rubbish !!!!

which book or google site was that from ?

you can't spell !!

does that mean your words mean nothing ?


Which of the words I wrote is mispelled?None!
Which book or google was that from? From a lot of books, and I am sure it is in thousands of sites.
And rap lacks the element of harmony, an element all music must have to be what technically is referred as to music. Some artists have implemented harmony, but the rap in itslef does not require harmony and thus is without any implementations it is not music.

Hip hop on the other hand IS music, implementing the elements of music.



QUOTE (tape's @ May 2 2006, 05:24 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
QUOTE (systemdelsilencio @ May 2 2006, 04:13 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Rap is technically not music. Music is composed of four elements: harmony, melody, rythm, and dynamics. If you know rap you'll notice one of these is lacking in rap. Lets see if you can guess which one.


What about traditional music that comes from other parts of the world? Some of them are not always composed with those elements present.

Rap has harmony; bass with synth/etc. Not a "classical" harmony but it's still a harmony.
Melody in chorus and in bass / synth line. Melody is also present in the actual rap and backing vocal lines.
Rhythm & Dynamics are obviously not lacking in rap.



Yeah. but Rap in itself does not have harmony. Some artists chose to add to rap by adding harmony, but harmony is not a requirement of rap music. On the other hand you can't have rock, metal, classical, hiphop... without those elements.


Then unaccompanied guitar solos wouldn't be a music right?
Same as Solo parts of Concertos from good ol' classical music?

i was .... asking questions ! but you did spell rhythm wrong !
-systemdelsilencio . hehehe - yeah its pedantic !

think maybe , one of the problems alot of people have with music comes from attempting to define what it actually is .

it's not worth the effort as there will always be people who disagree !

i like some rap , some of it has harmony , when its needed , some doesn't !

are there any real rules to music ?
i dont think so ! - but that's my view and i'm happy with it . no-one can enlighten me in any other way !
rules are to be broken......or bent ! its an evolutionary thing , but that's not taught in alot of schools anymore , i'm told !

ever listened to einsturzende neubaten ?

or a violin playing solo ?

a city , an engine , escalators , breaking glass , all contain elements of music !

if you close your mind with other peoples ideas of what music is , then you will only ever play other peoples music !


I am just saying from the technical meaning of music. The rap genre is not music, although some artists add to it creating music. Music can indeed have breaking glass sounds, as they may be meant to expose a part of the melody.

#54 one_who_rocks

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Posted 02 May 2006 - 02:53 PM

it's the concept of rap I don't like. It's the people that listen to it and how the scene went from almost a diffrent form of blues to...I got hoes in all diffrent area codes...

#55 jeffw

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Posted 02 May 2006 - 03:39 PM

Whew. This debate is fairly controversial.

Why didn't you ask something less controvisial, such as "is there a god?" or "are power chords real chords, because they lack a 3rd?"

tongue.gif

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#56 irishconnor

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Posted 02 May 2006 - 03:47 PM

QUOTE (dadfad @ May 2 2006, 02:23 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
What it comes down to is this:

The guys here who like rap are all gonna say "It's politically aware; it's a new evolution in music; there's "good" rap and crap-rap; Yo' mama's mama said the same thing about rock'n'roll, etc, etc."

The guys here who don't like rap are all gonna say "It isn't even music; it's all sh!tty; nothing but noisy Eubonics and wigga-wannbe's; etc, etc."


So who's right? I'll ask Jesus what he thinks the next time I talk to him. Meanwhile, it's time to once again revive....



The Dadfad Rap...


Screeech (scritchy-scratch scritchy-scratch)

Bump-bum...

Screeech (scritchy-scratch scritchy-scratch)

Bump-bum...

Screeech (scritchy-scratch scritchy-scratch)

Bump-bum...

Zzzzzzzzzzzzrrrrrrrcchhhhhhhhhhhhh..........

Zhhhooooommm-a-wham-a-Bamm-Bamm.....




Hey, home-boy
Whazzup wit chew?
Dizzig that C-rap you listnin' too.
It's shizzat, its sizzad.
It ain't no good.
It's noise polution in the neighborhood.

Don't care if I try to listen intently
I still say that it ain't no Bently.
It's still jus disco, like San Francisco.
Don't care if you bread it an' fry it in Crisco.

So take sum advice from D-fad Master
Grab that Gibson or Telecaster
It's dusty, rusty, worse than musty
Like Ludwig said to ol' Tchaicovsky
So blow off the cobwebs
Don' cha hear the news
The world still rocks to the muthafukkin Blues





(Yazz yazz, indeed it does.............) wink.gif


F' Jimi hendrix
Dadfad is now my hero
yesani.gif

#57 tape's

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Posted 02 May 2006 - 03:55 PM

QUOTE (systemdelsilencio @ May 2 2006, 04:59 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
QUOTE (tape's @ May 2 2006, 05:39 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>


Then unaccompanied guitar solos wouldn't be a music right?
Same as Solo parts of Concertos from good ol' classical music?


But rock does not need those solos to be considered rock. Rock and classical can be without these solos and still be rock/classical. Just like rap can be without harmony and still be rap.


And still be music, like the music from eastern asia and other cultures from all around the world which does NOT require all 4 elements.

QUOTE
I am just saying from the technical meaning of music. The rap genre is not music, although some artists add to it creating music. Music can indeed have breaking glass sounds, as they may be meant to expose a part of the melody.


Wouldn't rap be considered music then? if some of the artists decide to add harmony? that rap song with the harmony would be still classified as rap genre/music.

I mean even if the artists (like from late 70's-80's) decided not to put in "harmony"; their spoken/rapped lines (with rhythmic motives and melodic presense, which are present in all raps from all eras) plus the bass ostinatos & rhythmic/dynamic patterns can be classified as harmony imo. It just does not fit into classiscal rules of harmony. They don't/didn't even allow I-IV-V-I progressions. But seems to work fine imo.

I guess Chuck Berry, Elvis ain't no musicians techinically. Even though their music still includes all 4 parts, it cannot be a music cos of the wrong progressions. Just like rap music, it has all 4, but it's doesn't follow the rule of the traditional classical harmony etc. Therefore it cannot be music. Gregorian Chant cannot be music because their earlier forms were sung mostly monophonic.

Rap it self, like just freestyling without ANY accompaniments, if you don't consider that as a form of music/art; i must say all those guitar solos cannot be considered music either.

I guess Paganini's Caprice 5th/Eugene's trick bag would be rap.

QUOTE (jeffw @ May 2 2006, 06:39 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Whew. This debate is fairly controversial.

Why didn't you ask something less controvisial, such as "is there a god?" or "are power chords real chords, because they lack a 3rd?"

tongue.gif

-J


Some theory teachers and Pre-Classical and Classical era of Classical music defines power chords and moving one powerchord to the next powerchord to be very very wrong and also "empty" sounding.

And there is a god, and his name is Hendrix

tongue.gif

#58 systemdelsilencio

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Posted 02 May 2006 - 03:59 PM

QUOTE (tape's @ May 2 2006, 07:55 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
And there is a god, and his name is Hendrix

tongue.gif


Nah his name is systemdelsilencio biggrin.gif.

But like I said rap does not follow the fundamentals of the terminology of music. That is because unlike other genres which REQUIRE all elements rap does not require them. It is still an art IMO. Hip hop I think is music on the other hand as it is similar to rap, yet does not lack any of the fundamentals.

Edited by systemdelsilencio, 02 May 2006 - 04:03 PM.


#59 noodle69

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Posted 02 May 2006 - 04:10 PM

stop labelling things dude !!!

rap IS music , end of story !

there is no REAL reason why not , is there ?

i dont know what sort of rap you've been listening to , to come to a conclusion like that !
remember that i love you - no matter what i say

#60 tape's

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Posted 02 May 2006 - 04:30 PM

biggrin.gif, prove it.



_
But what about all the non-western music? They don't follow the rule of the fundamentals of the terminology of music and still is considered music. John Cage is a musician and his works are considered music, and that guy seriously lacks alot of elements (sometimes doesn't even have 'em) you've listed, even more than a rap music. The terminology can be used or not and in any kind of levels. Other songs which do not follow the rule it can still be qualified as being music.

But Rap, is a music that already presents harmony in instruments+voice etc. Almost ALL of rap song has all four elements man. From late 70's to rap music now, we can clearly hear all four elements working together.

Can you please tell me in which rap song you cannot hear harmony present? cos I can tell you some guitar solos which doesn't have harmony.

I always thought and told that Hip-hop is a culture, a way of life and "Rap" was the music that comes from that culture.

Which artists are "hip-hop"?



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