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How to write good lyrics


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#81 Blugh Grant

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Posted 21 May 2009 - 07:03 AM

QUOTE (blueswannabe @ May 20 2009, 10:58 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
QUOTE (noodle69 @ May 17 2009, 04:25 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
1. there aren't any rules !!!

2. there still aren't any rules !!!

3. no-one talks about fight club !!!


Ah, and you, you really got that particular ball of turd rolling.

Everybody stop using the word "rule", it's misleading when what is actually being sought, and indeed offered, is tips and advice. The "no rules" brigade is right in a sense, but so is Bruce when he says there are very obviously defined ways to go about it, especially when you're just getting started, and I'm sure everyone who has contributed in this thread has given Alex advice based on their own experience of what helps them to write a song - which doesn't make it rules.


I mean, I posted this partly in your defence - or, at least, to say that both sides have valid points and that this is a bit of a waste as a debate, not least because it's being argued slightly at cross-purposes due to this fascination with the word "rules". And you respond by attacking me.
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It was written that I should be loyal to the nightmare of my choice

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#82 noodle69

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Posted 21 May 2009 - 07:21 AM

i didn't attack you , i asked a question , its impossible to attack people with questions .
but you did in fact attack me by hurling accusations at me . have a good look , its in your own words - you've even used it as an example !!!

so don't give me all that partly in my defence nonsense - i already knew i was right !!! i didn't need defending !!!!

Edited by noodle69, 21 May 2009 - 07:26 AM.

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#83 Blugh Grant

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Posted 21 May 2009 - 07:28 AM

"actually - that was my reply to your bunch of ridiculous scraps of rule laden advice you offered up to us and was as much use as a piece of poo on a string !"

If you don't like my advice, fine, don't accept it.
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there seems to be an objective reality that a determined individual can penetrate if he is willing to challenge the confining chimeras of markets and machines

It was written that I should be loyal to the nightmare of my choice

http://theonlythingy...d.blogspot.com/

#84 noodle69

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Posted 21 May 2009 - 07:31 AM

i thought that was quite polite considering smile.gif
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#85 w00dy

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Posted 21 May 2009 - 09:14 AM

stop arguing so needlessly with each other your missing the real point!!!

blueswannabe thinks noodle69 is a real prick

and anyway you can use the stringy end as a kind of weighted flith lasso or shitesling (pat pending) for schoolyard humiliation purposes and the like

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go on give it a listen, it's good.

 


#86 w00dy

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Posted 21 May 2009 - 01:44 PM

owwww come'on this is the best argie, er, convo weve had in 5 years....

(soz for being so obvious) ok el_burton. where are you at with your lyrics?


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go on give it a listen, it's good.

 


#87 gravity

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Posted 24 May 2009 - 03:01 AM

QUOTE (noodle69 @ May 21 2009, 02:36 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
QUOTE (gravity @ May 20 2009, 05:59 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
QUOTE (noodle69 @ May 20 2009, 05:15 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
QUOTE (gravity @ May 20 2009, 06:37 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
QUOTE (noodle69 @ May 20 2009, 04:12 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
QUOTE (gravity @ May 19 2009, 06:52 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
What a ridiculous post.

What is music theory if it is not a set of rules? What is language if it is not a set of rules? There are hundreds of books on both indivually and hundreds of books on both collectively.

To generalise that there are no rules is just plainly wrong. The more competant you become as a songwriter the more liberties you will be able to take with them. But they are always there.

I'd love summarise them all in a user friendly soundbite but I'm just not that clever and don't have the next few years free to finish the book.

But who am i to disagree with you in your infinite wisdom. We should all just embrace a musical anarchy.



hhmmmm



you are becoming more and more hebetudinous with each post !!!

you haven't named a rule , yet you seem to believe that they exist . to say that music theory is a set of rules is , at the most , argueably true , but that set of rules doesn't in any way apply to songwriting , which is the subject that we are on .

if you think that what i say is anarchistic , then i guess that my 'wisdom' would appear to be infinite to you , in your tiny little world of rules that don't exist !

maybe god told you what the rules are , but not to share them with anyone else .

this discussion has become pointless since you haven't even given one meagre example of a fundamental songwriting rule . that is because you know that there aren't any , but you are stubborn and cannot face admitting your folly , coz you think you iz cleva , innit ? smile.gif


Are you serious? Really?

Thats the equivalent of saying I live in Australia but their laws do not apply to me.



now you're being deliberately obtuse !!!

that 'equivilent' has no merit to it whatsoever. the laws of australia clearly do exist , whereas the 'rules' or 'laws' that govern songwriting have only been mentioned so far and haven't yet materialised into anything more than an idea of their existence .i can only keep asking you to share these ' rules' !


I don't have time to type out a music theory lesson.

Music Theory itself is a set of hundreds of rules which apply.



i guess that you are the sort of person to try to teach your grandmother to suck eggs !

i understand a fair amount of music theory , and its relativity towards songwriting is nil . music theory guidelines do not govern songwriting at all !!!
the only relation between them is the melody , harmony and rhythm which is entirely governed by the writer of the song , who doesn't need to know any musical theory at all in order to write a song .
i would imagine music theory lessons with you would be an absolute drag and a person may leave the lesson feeling like music is an awfy bind , so please don't make any attempt to cast your effulgent but patronising admonitions upon me . please !!!! ohmy.gif


I agree totally that you do not need to know what the rules are. Hell you can drive along the road at 60mph and not know that was the speed limit. You didn't get a ticket. Well done. But that was luck. If you knew the speed limit was 60 then not getting the ticket was skill.

Regardless of whether people know or understand music theory it still governs every aspect of the musical side of songwriting. The difference is that consistantly good songwriters know its there, understand the basics and give it the respect it deserves. If you are writing a song in a certain key music theory dictates the core chord family and how other chords alien to that key behave when you use them. Like i said before you could rely on your luck to get it right or you could just know.

As for music theory lessons with me................ I'm far from qualified given that my own knowledge extends to simply the basics. And thats why my songwriting sucks. And patronising?????????? I prefer to think of it as illuminating ignorance. Or if you prefer explaining reality to a rude, obnoxious prick who has ideas well above his station!

This is the way it is dude.
BOOM

#88 noodle69

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Posted 24 May 2009 - 06:04 AM

i no longer understand where you are trying to take this !!!

the rules of music and the skill of songwriting can be brought together , but to say they are the same is not true .
many many people have written songs who didn't understand any music theory , it doesn't mean they were lucky . they had the skill to write about things people like to hear about. the melodies they may have came up do not necessarily need to have music as a learned skill , if they can hum the melody to a musician . so we aren't actually talking about music and the skill it takes to write a piece of music , just the song .


i can explain my version of reality to you if , you really want to hear about , but you'll need to take massive amounts of magic mushrooms for a period of about 10 years in order to free yourself of other peoples versions of reality that are constantly impinging themselves upon you . smile.gif


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#89 gravity

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Posted 24 May 2009 - 06:36 AM

QUOTE (noodle69 @ May 24 2009, 03:04 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
i no longer understand where you are trying to take this !!!

the rules of music and the skill of songwriting can be brought together , but to say they are the same is not true .
many many people have written songs who didn't understand any music theory , it doesn't mean they were lucky . they had the skill to write about things people like to hear about. the melodies they may have came up do not necessarily need to have music as a learned skill , if they can hum the melody to a musician . so we aren't actually talking about music and the skill it takes to write a piece of music , just the song .


i can explain my version of reality to you if , you really want to hear about , but you'll need to take massive amounts of magic mushrooms for a period of about 10 years in order to free yourself of other peoples versions of reality that are constantly impinging themselves upon you . smile.gif


Just because someone hasn't learned something as a skill doesn't mean it doesn't apply to what they do.
BOOM

#90 noodle69

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Posted 24 May 2009 - 06:44 AM

then you think that musical theory and songwriting are inextricably linked , i don't , and thats where we are different .


now go and write a song so we can poke it with sticks !! smile.gif


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