16 replies to this topic

[ibrutalized]

i start playing only 6 months ago... i practice many songs with power riffs (covers), but not barre chords.

i have tried them, but seems extremely hard.

what is best way to learn them?

are they the hardest chords?
what is the major types mean?

[Nealio]

Like any other aspect of guitar playing, there is no easy way. Barre chords are extremely tricky at first, but you just have to keep at them in order to learn how to do them fluently.

I'll give you a bit of advice (and this probably contradicts what I just said): Don't spend too much time worrying about them. Learn them as you need them. Some day, you'll realise you can do them without even trying.

And welcome to GZ

[Grandpa FrankyZ]

Yup barres can be a bit tricky to start with, but practice and perseverance will get you there. There are 2 basic types of barres, E shape, and A shape. E shape is pretty self explanatory, you just put an E spape behind a forefinger barre. if you want an Em, then you use an Em shape, 7th an E7 minor 7rh an Em7 shape, ect,ect. with the A shape you use a double barre using first and third fingers. The first across 5 strings, and the third across strings 2,3,and 4. Same applies as with E shapes, only use the various A shapes to find you minor, 7ths ect,ect.



A couple of exercises i use for my students is to form a barre chord shape on the strings relax the fingers whilst holding the shape, and move the fingers up and down the fretboard sliding up on the strings whilst holding the shape. This helps train the fingers to stay in the shape you are holding. Another is the 2 frets forward one fret back to also help with moving the barres about the fretboard. another good exercise is to play an E shape, then move down a fret to an A shape, then down another fret to an E shape and so on and so forth. Also learn all your notes on the E, and A strings, as these are the roots to your chords.


Your major chords are you main chords that all other chord extensions form from, in other words E, F, G, A, ect,ect. The major chord is formed from the 1st, 3rd, and 5th of the scale from which the chord is taken, eg:- C, is spelt C, E G. those being the !, 3rd, and 5th from the scale of C.


I hope this is clear enough for you.and helps.

Good Luck, and welcome to Guitarzone.

Edited by Grandpa FrankyZ, 10 August 2012 - 08:11 PM.

[halfmoonbay]

When you're practicing making barre chord shapes and you think you've got your fingers where you need them, try picking each individual string rather than strumming. If each note rings out, great, you've got it sorted. If you get a muted note then chances are you need to either press down harder with your first finger (the one that you tend to make the top of the barre chord with) or make sure that the rest of your fingers aren't touching the neighbouring string when they shouldn't. Adjust your fingers accordingly, then repeat. Once you've got the shape of the chord right then you can practice being able to make it quickly, and being able to move it up and down the neck.

[dadfad]

I'll give you a bit of advice, and there'll be some who'll disagree with it maybe, but I'll give it anyway!

Barre-chords can be difficult at first. You should practice until you can do them well, however one thing to keep in mind. Generally speaking a tune does not require a complete six-string barred chord be played. More often either the bass half or the treble half of the 6-note full-neck chord is all that is needed. If thats the case, you can concentrate more easily on playing just that partial barre, like this (I'll use an F#).......
2443XX (bassier) or XX4322 (treblier) for example.

As partials, they can be more easily made. The first bassier one by using the fingers or (the way I'd often prefer) using your thumb to hold the six-string note (believe me, it might seem awkward at first but it becomes easy very quickly, and you don't need large hands either), and then the fingers holding the E-chord-shaped part with it. (Using ones thumb to hold a string is the part some guitarists say you should never do. I disagree. You really don't need it for barre-chords necessarily (although it makes some easier as I mentioned), but there are certain licks and sequences that ABSOLUTELY CANNOT BE PLAYED without using the thumb. And I've challenged a few guitarists several times who disagreed to play a sequence I play with my thumb to do it without. (One from an old Blind Blake ragtime being the one I usually choose.) The First Commandment of playing guitar (to me anyway) is "Thou shalt doest whatst thou needest to do to get the sound thou wants." Anyway...

For the more trelby chord, just use the index to bar only the one and two strings and the other fingers to make the E-shape with it. Like I said, you should learn to make full barres for when they are needed but they often aren't. And little tricks like learning to use the thumb can make them much easier. Actually the full bar can be played and held like this using the thumb...

244322
TRPMII

Hope that helps a little.

[lowden]

Dadfads advice is good, you're playing power-riffs, so it might just require the bottom 4 or 5 strings. however practise and stamina/endurance can't be short-cutted and in the long-run will benefit. We all had difficulty with barre chords at the start, cos the middle of your finger is sensitive and a bit weaker than the tip. But we all got there, and most would agree that the results were quick in coming. There is an issue about basic stength training, as a barre chord is a fairly un-natural postion of the wrist and fingers, but stick with it and I can assure you that you'll have built that strength drastically within a week or two, beyong that it becomes natural and the stamina work begins. There are far more complicated finger positions for chords (mainly in the jazz field), but the exploration is the fun. But don't neglect the other hand, your strumming/finger picking. Many guys are great chordsmiths, but lack feel and precision/timing. A great right hand is far more difficult to master than a great left hand....... (left handed players can reverse that last statement). The balanced blending of both hands is the goal, and practise is the only way. We're all still learning and still working with our techniques, we all struggle with various aspects, practise and love of the guitar and music keeps us fresh. We all have this incurable disease called guitar playing, we all work hard to defeat it... but it can't be cured, only managed to the best of our ability. You'll have this sorted in a few weeks, then the next issue will arise... that's the fun of the game

[Nealio]

I agree. With practice, you'll be able to play a barre chord a lot sooner than you might think.

However, the next step will be learning to play barre chords without feeling like you've dislocated your wrist

[Matt B]

I'll give you a bit of advice, and there'll be some who'll disagree with it maybe, but I'll give it anyway!

Barre-chords can be difficult at first. You should practice until you can do them well, however one thing to keep in mind. Generally speaking a tune does not require a complete six-string barred chord be played. More often either the bass half or the treble half of the 6-note full-neck chord is all that is needed. If thats the case, you can concentrate more easily on playing just that partial barre, like this (I'll use an F#).......
2443XX (bassier) or XX4322 (treblier) for example.

As partials, they can be more easily made. The first bassier one by using the fingers or (the way I'd often prefer) using your thumb to hold the six-string note (believe me, it might seem awkward at first but it becomes easy very quickly, and you don't need large hands either), and then the fingers holding the E-chord-shaped part with it. (Using ones thumb to hold a string is the part some guitarists say you should never do. I disagree. You really don't need it for barre-chords necessarily (although it makes some easier as I mentioned), but there are certain licks and sequences that ABSOLUTELY CANNOT BE PLAYED without using the thumb. And I've challenged a few guitarists several times who disagreed to play a sequence I play with my thumb to do it without. (One from an old Blind Blake ragtime being the one I usually choose.) The First Commandment of playing guitar (to me anyway) is "Thou shalt doest whatst thou needest to do to get the sound thou wants." Anyway...

For the more trelby chord, just use the index to bar only the one and two strings and the other fingers to make the E-shape with it. Like I said, you should learn to make full barres for when they are needed but they often aren't. And little tricks like learning to use the thumb can make them much easier. Actually the full bar can be played and held like this using the thumb...

244322
TRPMII

Hope that helps a little.

I've always been a big proponent of the thumb on the E string. My band does a couple of ragtimey covers, and I actually hit bass notes on the A string with my thumb when we play those ones. I get frowned at in bluegrass circles for it sometimes, but its pretty easy to get frowned at in bluegrass circles around here. They don't much like bar chords either, come to think of it.

The partial chord thing has really become useful to me lately. The bassist I played with the most before finding this band liked to think of himself as a Victor Wooten type player, so I got stuck carrying the root a lot. The bassist in my new band is very root heavy, add in the acoustic guitar and fiddle and I wind up playing chords on 4, 3 or even 2 strings.

[surfwhammy]

When I first started learning Barre chords, the strategy I used was to Barre all the strings with my index finger, regardless of whether it was what I now call a "low" Barre chord (where the root note is on the low-pitch "E" string) or a "middle" Barre chord (where the root note is on the low-pitch "A" string) . . .

And for the most part, there are only a handful of Barre chords that are easy to play (major, minor, 7th, minor 7th), and two of them are the same shape in some instances ("low" Barre major chord and "middle" Barre minor chord, for example) . . .

Whether using your thumb is practical depends on your hands, where for me it is not practical to use my thumb . . .

Later, when you realize that what you really are doing is using your index finger as if it were a capo, then it all makes a bit more sense with respect to determining which of the open-position shapes you can use, where for example you can play a standard open-position C major shape as a "low" Barre chord, but depending on the length of your fingers and your general finger dexterity it can require a bit of practicing, and since the fingers typically are different, it can be a bit mind-boggling at first . . .

And as dadfad noted, you do not need to play all the strings all the time, which is another very important aspect of using and playing Barre chords, which specifically involves learning how to be more precise in your guitar picking and strumming, which as best as I can determine is something that comes nearly exclusively from lots of practicing, since by the time you have discovered how to do it, it is more of an "I just do it" type of thing, which also the way determining whether to Barre all the strings with your index finger works . . .

It also is useful to know that it requires a good bit of arm, wrist, hand and finger strength to play Barre chords, where the clue comes from observing the amount of tension required to set a capo so that the strings do not buzz, and in this respect simply strumming the same Barre chord for a few minutes is a great way to begin building the required arm, wrist, hand, and finger strength, where way you hold the guitar or have it suspended by a guitar strap is vastly important with respect to avoiding problems like carpal tunnel syndrome and so forth . . .

Ideally, you want the guitar neck to be positioned so that your forearm, wrist, and the opposite side of your palm (which I supposed is called the "top of your hand") are mostly horizontal in a reaonsably straight line, since this is the position that puts the least amount of tension and strain on the various muscles, tendons, and ligaments. In other words, your fingers bend easily, so let your fingers do the majority of the bending--not your forearm, wrist, and palm or "top of the hand", depending on the observing perspective (floor looking upward or sitting or standing looking downward) . . .

And while making this particular observation does not make me feel very young, over half a century ago George Harrison and John Lennon were the guitar players who moved playing Barre chords into the mainstream of popular music, and if you observe the way they have their electric guitars adjusted with respect to guitar strap lengths and so forth, this provides a good general clue, while the absolutely worst possible way to strap a guitar is the way Jimmy Page (Led Zeppelin) decided to strap his Gibson Les Paul when doing concerts, which mostly was for "show" or whatever, although he used his thumb, which makes it a bit different and not quite so disturbing

"She Loves You" (Beatles) -- The Ed Sullivan Show, February 16, 1964 -- YouTube music video

[NOTE: In fairness, Jimmy Page has long arms, and he adjusts his position by leaning forward and bending over when he needs to play the lower pitch strings . . . ]

"The Ocean" (Led Zeppelin) -- 1973 Concert, New York -- YouTube music video

And from a more subtle but nevertheless at least somewhat relevant perspective, in the early-1960s people were not so obsessed with automatically checking men's "junk", hence part of the reason for the trend of lengthening guitar straps that started in the late-1960s and early-1970s mostly was a matter of some lead guitar players not having the time or desire to stuff their underpants with Kleenex® or a sock to make "Mr. Wiggly" look bigger or whatever, where my personal favorite in those days was the traditional summer sausage suspended by a piece of string, really . . .



Really!

Edited by surfwhammy, 12 August 2012 - 03:11 PM.

[dadfad]

Lowden said "...A great right hand is far more difficult to master than a great left hand....."

So very true. Beginners (and even many intermediates) tend to think the left-hand work is the most difficult to master, but after a certain point where your left-hand fingers basically do what you tell them to do and most chords are now filed into muscle-memory, the right hand technique(s) is the most difficult.

Surf said "... late-1960s and early-1970s... stuff their underpants with Kleenex® or a sock to make "Mr. Wiggly" look bigger or whatever, where my personal favorite in those days was the traditional summer sausage suspended by a piece of string, really."



Surf, I used to know a girl who made custom "stage-clothes" back then in the late '60s. To get "the look" when making the pants she'd intentionally make the cuts and side-seams around the hip slightly different from normal. For the rear the material would be cut normal (as in tight-fitting, etc), but on the front side she'd add a little bit of extra material on the side-seams just parallel to the "package-area, which when worn (the rest of the pants being fairly tight) would cause the excess material to bulge a bit in that area. Also, instead at the inseam where normally the legs join in an inverted V type of thing, she would cut the material so the inseam joint was more of an inverted U, which also gave excess material in that area adding to that bulge with no need for "packing.". She made clothes for our band and several others I knew.

(But of course the ones she made for me never required anything extra like that to be done to them! )

[Matt B]

You have the best stories, John. I know it's been said, but you need to write a book!

I agree about right hand vs left hand technique. I'm constantly working on my right hand technique, especially lately since I'm trying to get better at pick and fingers stuff, Albert Lee style. Strangely though, when I play really fast triplet runs, my left hand trips me up more often than my right.

[Nealio]

Yeah. I mean, how can so much cool stuff happen to one guy?

As for the "left hand v right hand" thing, I don't remember ever having much trouble training my strumming hand to do what I wanted. Rhythm, alternate picking, it all came pretty easy (although I can't sweep pick for shit lol). I think I used to spend so much time worrying about my fretting hand, that my strumming came to me naturally, without me even realising. I wonder does being a lefty help in that department?

For that reason, I'd advise people not to worry about it too much. It will come naturally without you even thinking about it.

[dorio]

I think I used to spend so much time worrying about my fretting hand, that my strumming came to me naturally, without me even realising. I wonder does being a lefty help in that department?

It would be sweet if being lefty had advantages such as giving one some special playing skills (there would be more people that'd learn with their left hand to begin with...) but apparently it isn't so at least not for me. Timing is often a problem for me but the important thing is that I do realize it so when working on new tunes the strumming or picking pattern (or both in certain cases) are the things that really matter to me. It's one of the reasons I don't sing anymore since I find it hard to sing and play at the same time and of course when I say "play" I mean play correctly.

Regarding the barré chords question I read great advices above but the most important one is to practice as much as possible and one day you'll play these chords without even thinking. You gotta work on it as there is no escape from them so the sooner you "conquer" them the better for you.

As Dadfad said it helps to realize that on many tunes full barrés are not compulsory at all. Bm for instance is the key to many popular tunes but most of the time it isn't played as a full barré chord as the strumming or picking hand needs to hit treble notes only. And it is clear that the guitarists that say 'the thumb should never be used to hold a string' are seriously wrong.

[Nealio]

As a teacher, I find being a lefty is extremely useful for a face to face situation.

Other than that, it's a bloody curse.

[lowden]

Being a lefty also helps create a symmetric band photo

[Matt B]

And it is clear that the guitarists that say 'the thumb should never be used to hold a string' are seriously wrong.

I bet most of them just don't have the strength to do it.

[dadfad]

Being a lefty also helps create a symmetric band photo

True! I played as half of an acoustic duo a few times with a lefty. We fit in front of the mics centerstage perfectly!