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Canadian elections


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#1 richey

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Posted 05 September 2015 - 02:10 PM

So I know some of you GTUers are Canadian. I hear there's elections in a few weeks. So what's going on? Who's going to win? Who should win? 

 

I'm aware it might be optimistic to start a political discussion on GTU but I'm feeling lucky... 


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#2 Derf!

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Posted 06 September 2015 - 12:00 AM

Truth be told, I'm not set on who to vote for this coming election. As a native american, I do not feel at all represented by anyone out there. The best I've got is a kinship with that poor devil Trudeau, but that's only lung deep. Legalization of marijuana is hardly gonna save us from ourselves. Your thoughts?



#3 Seán

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Posted 06 September 2015 - 06:04 AM

I saw the other day that Mulcair commented on the disappearances/murders of native women (presumably in a "this needs to be addressed" fashion), and I haven't heard of anyone else saying anything along that line yet. Harper for sure has just said there's no issue there. So, NDP is sort of for you?

They're who I'm voting for, anyway, since the PC and Liberal parties are pretty much the same, and I hate the idea of a legacy prime minister even if Trudeau was representing my opinions.

 

There's a real shot the Conservatives are finally gone now. After what happened in Alberta, I'm sure we can do it federally.


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#4 TheNewSponge

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Posted 06 September 2015 - 08:13 AM

I think there is also the distinct possibility they squeak out another minority government. But that seems less likely with each day, so yay to that. Looks like my riding is going Conservative or Liberal, but since the Liberal candidate is an old long-time Conservative, it's kinda lose-lose here.

 

 

I think I'll be voting NDP based on their stance on election reform (among other things). First Past The Post is a terrible terrible system. I really hope they can push through some reform if they win a minority.



#5 Dave C

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Posted 06 September 2015 - 08:37 AM

Is there a proper socialist party?



#6 Seán

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Posted 06 September 2015 - 08:50 AM

Has there ever been?


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#7 Dave C

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Posted 06 September 2015 - 10:56 AM

Fair point.



#8 sixgunsound

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Posted 07 September 2015 - 07:43 AM

i was in florida. now i will comment with a handy breakdown

 

Canada. Parliamentary democracy, vote for MPs, first past the post electoral system. 

 

Three main parties across country: Conservative (incumbent Steven Harper since 2006), Liberal (candidate is son of beloved although polarising PM of the 70s and 80s), and New Democratic Party (inspirational and unifying leader died in 2011 on party upswing). 

 

One provincial: Bloc Quebecois (only goal is Quebec sovereignty). 

 

One token party: The Greens (we even let its leader participate in a debate!).

 

Others: Christian Heritage Party, Communist Party, likely not the Rhinoceros Party which is equatable to Stark Raving Loonies. 

 

Main Issues

 

Economy: Conservatives tout record during recession, Liberals and NDP point out that we're currently in a recession. PM first admits then denies. Falling price of oil to blame. 

Environment: Conservatives have eliminated environmental protections and pumped money into Tar Sands project. It's an environmental disaster but was an economic money maker until recently. 

Note: Alberta, the province where the Tar Sands operates was so disillusioned that they voted in an NDP provincial government after 30 some odd years of Conservative rule earlier this year.

Bill C-51: Like a Canadian Patriot Act. Expanded secret police power and detention and arrest abilities for Federal Govt. Championed by Conservatives, supported by Liberals. NDP vows to repeal. 

Senate: Harper promised in 2006 to change appointed senators to electoral system. He didn't. Now a few of his appointees are in serious criminal trouble concerning bribery and lies. NDP vows to repeal. 

Science: Federal scientists are not allowed to publish findings that contradict federal policies. It's pretty messed up but nobody seems to care except the scientists for some reason. 

Human Rights: we maybe haven't investigated the deaths of a few thousand indigenous women. Mostly from one stretch of highway. Relationships with native peoples are frosty because Conservatives don't support FPIC (free prior and informed consent) when allowing foreign resource extraction companies the rights to their traditional (and treaty protected) lands. 

ISIS: Canadians overwhelmingly supported not participating in 2003 invasion of Iraq. Now we are there anyway. Militarists (see: Conservatives and Right Leaning Liberals) are okay with this. The NDP is losing its mind. 

Refugees: The Conservative government doesn't want them here. It's reminiscent of our government turning away refugee Jews from Europe in the 30's. 

 

Outcome

 

The left is split and the Conservatives look to pick up a minority government. The NDP has reached out to the Liberals to suggest a coalition. The Liberals refuse to support one. 

Quebec will probably elect a hearty mix of NDP and BQ. Any attempt at a coalition will be put down as other parties supporting Quebec separatism. They tried that a few years ago, but Harper shut down parliament. Illegally. No big deal. 

 

Me

 

I'm voting solely on C51. After voting for the Liberals since 2003 I will be voting NDP. The police chief responsible for my 2010 unlawful arrest is running for the liberal party against a friend who was also arrested. The liberals have moved centre right for the first time in a few decades and I'm moving left. We'll see what happens. 


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#9 richey

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Posted 07 September 2015 - 09:54 AM

 

 

Truth be told, I'm not set on who to vote for this coming election. As a native american, I do not feel at all represented by anyone out there. The best I've got is a kinship with that poor devil Trudeau, but that's only lung deep. Legalization of marijuana is hardly gonna save us from ourselves. Your thoughts?

 

 

Well, I don't follow Canadian politics all that closely but I gather the NDP are the progressive party of the three, and the Liberals are much more centrist but for years were regarded as the only viable alternative to the Conservatives. After the NDP's astonishing result a few years back, though, has that changed? 

As a socialist and a UK Labour Party member, I feel like I want the NDP to do well but to be honest, if I was Canadian I would probably vote tactically for whoever was capable of beating the Conservatives.
 

I hate the idea of a legacy prime minister

What does this phrase mean please?


My anger is a form of madness
And so I'd rather have hope than sadness

#10 richey

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Posted 07 September 2015 - 09:59 AM

Thanks Sixy, that's brilliant :) 

 

Liberal (candidate is son of beloved although polarising PM of the 70s and 80s), and New Democratic Party (inspirational and unifying leader died in 2011 on party upswing). 

 

Science: Federal scientists are not allowed to publish findings that contradict federal policies. It's pretty messed up but nobody seems to care except the scientists for some reason. 

 

Ah, the name Trudeau rang a bell. The new one looks about 12. Has he not got homework to do? 

Incidentally I've just started reading Jack Layton's book 'Speaking Out Louder'. I know it's old now, 2006 I think, but I'm enjoying it. 

As for the science thing... That is bonkers. 


My anger is a form of madness
And so I'd rather have hope than sadness

#11 Seán

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Posted 07 September 2015 - 11:22 AM

 

 

I hate the idea of a legacy prime minister

What does this phrase mean please?

 

Like Sixy said, new Trudeau is the son of old Trudeau. Political families feel like hereditary monarchies, to which I am opposed, so it puts me off wanting to support him even if he's otherwise alright (he's not really so it's not even an issue). 


Edited by Seán, 07 September 2015 - 11:22 AM.

everyone is bitches


#12 richey

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Posted 07 September 2015 - 11:44 AM

Oh, I see what you mean. You don't like the idea of a dynasty, like it's nepotistic. 


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#13 richey

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Posted 07 September 2015 - 11:57 AM

even if he's otherwise alright (he's not really so it's not even an issue).
 

 

So what's wrong with New Trudeau? 


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#14 Seán

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Posted 07 September 2015 - 05:45 PM

He's supportive of the C-51 thing mentioned before. (edited out misinformation)


Edited by Seán, 13 September 2015 - 07:59 AM.

everyone is bitches


#15 TheNewSponge

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Posted 08 September 2015 - 12:25 PM

Actually, Trudeau planned for three years of deficits to pay for infrastructure projects, which is a pretty good idea. Mulcair said he would not run a deficit...



#16 Seán

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Posted 08 September 2015 - 12:37 PM

Oh that's different from what I previously saw. Maybe I misread it or the news lied. They would never do that.

 

Good for Trudeau, but I still don't like that C51 thing. Mulcair should know better.


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#17 TheNewSponge

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Posted 08 September 2015 - 03:46 PM

Mulcair could never say anything like that or he'd be branded a tax & spend socialist. I like Trudeau saying that what the country needs is infrastructure spending, because it tends to be a quick way out of recession, plus a lot of infrastructure in my neck of the woods is real old and shitty anyway... But Trudeau's support for C51 is super concerning, and I really don't trust the Liberals to keep any election promises they make.



#18 richey

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Posted 10 September 2015 - 11:56 AM

That's disappointing from the NDP. I like Trudeau's plan for infrastructure investment. 

 

Do you think he's just not ready  ^_^  


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#19 richey

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Posted 10 September 2015 - 12:46 PM

I'm trying to catch some Canadian news, since the only thing so far that has made the British papers is a Tory pissing in coffee cups. If only ours were so harmless...

 

I've just watched The National and Tom Mulcair was impressive. Peter Mansbridge more so. I wish we had interviewers like that here. :(

 

I did notice there was an interesting segment on "does the party with the most seats have an automatic right to govern". In the event of a hung parliament (I assume you use this term) and the Conservatives are the largest party, is a coalition of the Liberals and NDP a realistic possibility? 


My anger is a form of madness
And so I'd rather have hope than sadness

#20 sixgunsound

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Posted 10 September 2015 - 04:39 PM

Yeah, the coffee pisser and his other former in-the-running candidate who made prank phone calls pretending to me mentally disabled. Both of those dudes are out. 

 

Mulcair was okay on the Mansbridge interview, but I haven't seen the others yet so I won't compare. Mansbridge is okay. Ha. 

 

We don't use the term hung parliament but I surmise that it's one with no majority? or do you mean a tie. I realistically have no idea what you're talking about. If Harper has the most seats he intends to form government. A Liberal NDP coalition is OUT OF THE QUESTION according to Trudeau. He's a buffoon. Not to mention that last time a coalition was attempted Harper prorogued parliament illegally to prevent it from happening. 

 

Good old Harper. 


He did it with the help of our governor general I might add. Fuck the monarchy I hope Lizzie is run over by an errant bus. 


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