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#1 crab man

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Posted 25 November 2015 - 11:05 AM

accept Syrian refugees in your country if you were in charge?

At first I said yes unreservedly. My friends said I'm a reckless, irresponsible moron for this. I said they were self-centered cowards for saying no. Undoubtedly we're both oversimplifying.. so what's the insight? You're the smartest, most rational group of people I could think to ask. Supposedly it would be just about the hardest way for individuals with terroristic intent to get in (to my country anyway) due to all the checks they go through. Still I wonder.. sort of seems like you're putting people you know and love at risk to help out people you don't know, but at the same time they're still human beings, I can't bring myself to say that I would turn them away. Is that weakness or compassion? Is turning them away an act governed by fear, or is it just being reasonably cautious? I'm not sure there is an easy answer.

#2 James_Coolidge

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Posted 25 November 2015 - 12:24 PM

I have been thinking about this for about four seconds but I would say yes. I would make the screening process pretty extensive though and even keep them in an area separate from citizens until there was enough time to ensure that things would be fine.


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#3 Derf!

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Posted 25 November 2015 - 12:46 PM

I likes what John Oliver said, but these seem like dark times and I don't think I could effectively make that decision. Reese seems to lean the way I do here,  though I have no idea about what safeguards I could put in place. Many of these people probably didn't have a whole lot of time to consider proper identification before the whole "flee in panic" thing. 

 

The brother in law, on the other hand, would close all borders immediately because WE SHOULD TAKE CARE OF OUR OWN BEFORE WE DARE TO SHOW THE LEAST BIT OF COMPASSION etc. 

 

So chances are I'd let them all in and potentially bring ruin to Canada, but really we're due aren't we. Or, it'll be totally fine, but people akin to the brother in law will put me to the wall akin to Jon Snow and The Crows. Hey, that's a pretty good band name, isn't it. They'd break up eventually though. 



#4 gravity

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Posted 25 November 2015 - 12:57 PM

This is why I hate social media. Every ignorant asshole with an opinion gets a soapbox and a microphone. Maybe it's just the people I know but oh my god some of the stuff I've read......

Post after post "I'm not racist but........". Well I have news for you, you are fucking racist.

"I know most of them are ok but we should just close our borders because I don't want to take the chance". I mean Jesus are you for real?

These people are fleeing for their lives. And without starting a whole other debate they wouldn't be doing that if western society hadn't been redrawing borders, meddling in their affairs and implementing regime changes.
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#5 Derf!

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Posted 25 November 2015 - 01:10 PM

Aye. It seems every expert in the world comes spilling out of the wood works with self proclaimed "indisputably correct" actions to take on a global scale. The number of times I've heard "we should just bomb them all and let god sort them out" lately is, quite frankly, a horrifying indictment of religion and also just plain horrifying.



#6 w00dy

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Posted 25 November 2015 - 03:24 PM

yes i'd let them but id make them all wear some kind of brightly coloured symbol on their jackets and clothes at all times, so we (the common man in the street) know exactly who the terrorists are!

 

the day she-harah law comes to gtu is the day i never come back!!!!!!

 

really i say lets help them man! we've bombed the fuck out of all the oil countries, and killed all the dictators who subjugated the masses who wanted a better life. what would you do just wait around for a drone to pick you off from 20000 feet? like fuck you or any sane person would, i tell you as soon as my mum said to me as a little boy "you have to wipe your arse with sand" i would have said fuck that shit, I'm offmans


Edited by w00dy, 25 November 2015 - 03:30 PM.

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#7 spacecrumbs

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Posted 25 November 2015 - 03:33 PM

I'm not sure I even believe in countries, to be honest I don't have a lot of energy left to think about these things but I agree with gravity. Colonialism etc.

 

Also, western food is bland and shit.



#8 Graeme! Yes, Graeme!

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Posted 25 November 2015 - 04:46 PM

I live in the United States of America, a country whose history of the past few centuries is entirely made up of refugees and immigrants. You're never just American, you're a third generation Italian, or your grandfather was Irish, you're Dutch, you're whatever. There are native Americans, but their voice in society is generally so quiet it's shameful.

 

Think of Ellis Island. This small little chunk of land in the bay outside New York and New Jersey functioned as the portal to this country. The Statue of Liberty stands there, a symbol of freedom, a gift from France, and on that statue there is a poem:

 

Not like the brazen giant of Greek fame,

With conquering limbs astride from land to land;

Here at our sea-washed, sunset gates shall stand

A mighty woman with a torch, whose flame

Is the imprisoned lightning, and her name

Mother of Exiles. From her beacon-hand

Glows world-wide welcome; her mild eyes command

The air-bridged harbor that twin cities frame.

"Keep ancient lands, your storied pomp!" cries she

With silent lips. "Give me your tired, your poor,

Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,

The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.

Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,

I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"

 

The very portal to the United States of America for decades had words telling the world to send those in need here. And there is a great need right now, but people are afraid and so they are rejecting these people.

 

It's sickening to me.



#9 Seán

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Posted 25 November 2015 - 08:09 PM

Do you know about some of the shit that went down on Ellis Island though? That poem is great, but no one was ever paying attention to it. 

 

 

Of course I'd let refugees in.


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#10 sixgunsound

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Posted 26 November 2015 - 05:34 AM

the old hospital down the street will be housing a number of families.

 

my main confusion is when people who will never see a refugee in their town complain about the threat of terrorism. right, like a terrorist is plotting how he can blow up two tobacco farmers at tim hortons.

 

if im not worried, why worry?


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#11 w00dy

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Posted 26 November 2015 - 06:46 AM

y'know the "don't help them" argument that pisses me off the most?

 

the "help our homeless ex-soliders first" one

 

no, hear me out...

first of all i don't think any one deserves to be homeless

I fully acknowledge that their job is a protect our lifestyle, and respect that

 

but the key word in that last sentence is "job". they aren't doing it for free and no one is asking them too.

 

they are in fact serving, in part at least, to protect the freedom to choose to do with the money you earn as you see fit. and i thank them for that. 

but if you spend it all unwisely and end up on the street, that's sad, i feel for you. as much as i feel for anyone who is failed by society, but not more than. i do think much better educational (that doesn't mean everyone should be forced to do gcse's or a levels, but that should be an option) safeguards should be in place to ensure that people leaving the military don't become homeless. should they get a free home after they've served? maybe yeah, I'm not anti service people.

 

but that whole discussion is separate to the question; do you help some one who is fleeing a war zone, who has nothing but the rags on their backs and the children under their arms?

 

i suspect if you can answer "no, fuck the dirty muslim terrorists!" that there would be very little chance of you ever helping an ex service person if there were no refugees. because you fail society


Edited by w00dy, 26 November 2015 - 06:49 AM.

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#12 awesem

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Posted 26 November 2015 - 06:56 AM

I would let them in. I couldn't not.

I dont watch the news because I'm selfish and weak and I get too sad. Boohoo poor me.

Last night, however, I ended up watching a movie/documentary called 'India's daughter'. It was a very hard watch. It was about a woman that was brutally raped in 2012 and it showed footage of one of the purpotraters telling his account. Also the lawyers and other officials. They spoke about why it was normally acceptable behavior. The filmmakers talked to the family of the victim and also the families of the other purpotraters. It was very sad all around.

I def live a gifted life in comparison. I was born into such luxury. But I was born no better than anyone that grew up suffering from poverty and different circumstance.

If peeps have an opportunity to excile then yeah. Hell yeah.

I couldn't say no.

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#13 Graeme! Yes, Graeme!

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Posted 26 November 2015 - 07:12 AM

stuff

 

The other thing that annoys me about this is that it isn't a competition. The homeless people need help, the refugees need help. Why not try to be good people and try to help all of them?



#14 spacecrumbs

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Posted 26 November 2015 - 09:12 AM

I would let them in. I couldn't not.

I dont watch the news because I'm selfish and weak and I get too sad. Boohoo poor me.

Last night, however, I ended up watching a movie/documentary called 'India's daughter'. It was a very hard watch. It was about a woman that was brutally raped in 2012 and it showed footage of one of the purpotraters telling his account. Also the lawyers and other officials. They spoke about why it was normally acceptable behavior. The filmmakers talked to the family of the victim and also the families of the other purpotraters. It was very sad all around.

I def live a gifted life in comparison. I was born into such luxury. But I was born no better than anyone that grew up suffering from poverty and different circumstance.

If peeps have an opportunity to excile then yeah. Hell yeah.

I couldn't say no.

 

This touches on something I've been wondering lately. Does the situation (or in this case does the society) something like rape occurs in make a difference in the significance or severity of the damage caused by it?

 

I can't see how it wouldn't.

 

Please don't misunderstand this as sympathy for the perpetrators.



#15 Seán

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Posted 26 November 2015 - 09:52 AM

You'd have to look a lot at how they deal with victims. Like in North America at least, victims are often embarrassed and ashamed on top of whatever physical damage they suffered, and part of that is because there's a history of blaming them for the assault. Maybe somewhere where that hasn't been an issue would help someone to get over the physical trauma a lot easier, and then maybe that even allows them to think of the rapist in a nicer way because they maybe ruined your week but not your life? That sounds like a stretch. On the flip side are various places that kill the victim because that's what their holy book tells them to do. 


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#16 spacecrumbs

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Posted 26 November 2015 - 11:54 AM

Yes definitely, I was actually thinking of the reverse of that though, like the idea of a sexual assault causing more psychological damage if it was committed by say a colleague than say an unknown in a rough area, and the same perhaps applying to different cultures. I have no idea what I'm talking about so I hope I'm not upsetting anyone but suggesting this. Please do feel free to tell me if I am.



#17 gravity

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Posted 26 November 2015 - 12:43 PM

Syria to rape...........

Really guys? Really?
BOOM

#18 crab man

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Posted 26 November 2015 - 12:48 PM

em did it

#19 gravity

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Posted 26 November 2015 - 12:50 PM

She has a lot to answer for
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#20 TheNewSponge

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Posted 26 November 2015 - 01:46 PM

Yep. Bring 'em all over. It's what we're here for, really.. Isn't it?





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