Jump to content


- - - - -

Guitar cab vs. Bass cab... porting?


12 replies to this topic

#1 ericman197

ericman197

    namuchsupwichoo?

  • GZ Regular
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 8,536 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Original Name: ericman197

Posted 26 November 2003 - 06:06 AM

What I'm wondering is why aren't guitar cabs ported? Porting is supposed to give a much better low end, so why are guitar cabs almost always closed back... or are there porting techniques I'm not aware of? This is more of a guitar cab question, but it's a comparison to bass cabs so I thought it'd be ok.

#2 radio4

radio4
  • GZ Regular
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,674 posts
  • Location:Your mum
  • Original Name: radio4

Posted 26 November 2003 - 08:17 AM

guitars don't need low end, thats what a bassist is for.

#3 ericman197

ericman197

    namuchsupwichoo?

  • GZ Regular
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 8,536 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Original Name: ericman197

Posted 26 November 2003 - 10:06 AM

hmm, perhaps I should've explained it better, I was pressed for time.

The reason I ask is because with proper porting, bass cabs not only sound better but they're also much more efficient. A good 4x10 with proper porting and quality speakers will have much more lowend than any 1x15, assuming the 15 is not ported properly. So what I'm wondering is why aren't guitar cabs ported? Because you would think that if bass amps can go down into the 20Hz range with 10" speakers in a large ported cabinet, you'd think that the same could be applied to guitar... put guitar 10" speakers in a bass 4x10, or something like it. While I know that'd probably sound awful since it's much more complex than that, that's the basic idea I'm getting at... applying the same physics concepts.

#4 bluesbass

bluesbass
  • GZ Regular
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,118 posts
  • Location:N.E. PA, USA
  • Original Name: bluesbass

Posted 26 November 2003 - 03:08 PM

QUOTE (ericman197 @ Nov 26 2003, 02:06 PM)
hmm, perhaps I should've explained it better, I was pressed for time.

The reason I ask is because with proper porting, bass cabs not only sound better but they're also much more efficient. A good 4x10 with proper porting and quality speakers will have much more lowend than any 1x15, assuming the 15 is not ported properly. So what I'm wondering is why aren't guitar cabs ported? Because you would think that if bass amps can go down into the 20Hz range with 10" speakers in a large ported cabinet, you'd think that the same could be applied to guitar... put guitar 10" speakers in a bass 4x10, or something like it. While I know that'd probably sound awful since it's much more complex than that, that's the basic idea I'm getting at... applying the same physics concepts.

well... you are confusing efficiency (loudness) with sensitivity (frequency response, or lowness). porting tends to add lowend but not efficiency, in other words, by adding porting you will have more lowend. for instance, let's look at the classic ampeg svt-810 enclosure... you don't get much more efficient than that and it is a sealed cabinet. it has all the punch, grind, and definition a cabinet could ever hope to attain but in all actuallity, it doesn't really go that low. sure the coupling effect of the 10's will give you enough overtones to get by, but it is actually tuned to about 65hz. now, front-porting vs. rear-porting is a whole other issue. generally front ports are thought to deliver all the sound out front where it belongs but if you can get a rear-ported cabinet fixed properly in a corner it will be louder and lower than a similar cabinet (unscientifically speaking of course) that is front-ported however, it may be harder finding that sweet spot. guitar cabs need to be loud and defined. a sealed cabinet will do that better than any ported one and guitar doesn't need the aid of front porting due to the frequncy ranges it has. if a guitar cabinet was ported, it would sound very muddy and indistinct and get lost easily in the mix as do many bass cabinets when not EQ'ed properly.

when it comes to bass cabs there three principles:
loud, low, and small.
you can pick two and only two...
examples:
small and low but not low (acme low b2)
small and loud but not low (avatar b210)
loud and low but not small (epi 215)
user posted image

#5 hotrod69

hotrod69
  • Member
  • Pip
  • 146 posts
  • Location:midwest,wis.
  • Original Name: hotrod69

Posted 26 November 2003 - 03:22 PM

cool.gif
as i too was wondering if i could use a guitar cab for a bass cab if i took ouy the g
guitar anp and replaced it with the bass eq/amp... so what your saying is that i could do this if i opened it up for the lower end sound,, correct ?

a friend just gave me a 2/10 cab w/ blown speaker's. this would work , right ???


h69

peace

#6 ericman197

ericman197

    namuchsupwichoo?

  • GZ Regular
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 8,536 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Original Name: ericman197

Posted 26 November 2003 - 03:39 PM

ahh, makes sense. I always figured the porting just made the lowend better and essentially tuned the cab. But I always thought that a larger enclosure would equate to better bass... when I was on the Genz Benz site, it said the 2x10 would handle something like 45 or 55Hz, the 4x10 would handle 35Hz, and the 6x10 would handle down to 25Hz. So is it that the size does make it better, or is it just that the larger fridge style cabinets just have more loudness and greater efficiencies, thus making it seem they can go lower?

#7 bluesbass

bluesbass
  • GZ Regular
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,118 posts
  • Location:N.E. PA, USA
  • Original Name: bluesbass

Posted 26 November 2003 - 03:46 PM

hotrod, you would do damage to the speakers if they were guitar speakers. you can play a bass through a guitar head and have decent tone if you keep the eq pretty flat and volume low and run it through a bass speaker cabinet. you shouldn't run a bass through a guitar cabinet without using a crossover to redirect the lows to a bass cab...

and yes, eric, tuning comes with ports and generally, the larger the cab, the lower it will go at louder volumes. wink.gif
user posted image

#8 pauliejay

pauliejay

    ad hominem ad nauseum

  • GZ Regular
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,402 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Sydney, Australia
  • Original Name: pauliejay

Posted 26 November 2003 - 09:23 PM

Guitarists will bang on about the difference between sealed cabs and open back cabs (my Fender Twin Reverb, for instance, is "open backed"). I don't really think that guitars get down low enough to get any real benefit from porting.

Edited by pauliejay, 26 November 2003 - 09:23 PM.


#9 ericman197

ericman197

    namuchsupwichoo?

  • GZ Regular
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 8,536 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Original Name: ericman197

Posted 26 November 2003 - 09:49 PM

Is there a difference? The cab I'm thinking of getting is a closed back, but the Line 6 I have now is open. It gets a very awesome full hi-fi sound, but it's a little lacking in the low mids.

#10 pauliejay

pauliejay

    ad hominem ad nauseum

  • GZ Regular
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,402 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Sydney, Australia
  • Original Name: pauliejay

Posted 26 November 2003 - 09:57 PM

To be honest I don't really know. My Twin is very full sounding and kicks like a mule ... I've got no idea what difference it makes though.

#11 ericman197

ericman197

    namuchsupwichoo?

  • GZ Regular
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 8,536 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Original Name: ericman197

Posted 26 November 2003 - 09:59 PM

I'm pretty sure it gives a bump in the low mids and dampens the treble a bit when you close the back... but I'm not really sure. Those were just my own observations, as well as what I've heard. My Line 6 tends to get excellent crisp high end treble without sounding super scratchy.

#12 randallflagg

randallflagg
  • GZ Regular
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,697 posts
  • Location:Kansas City USA
  • Original Name: randallflagg

Posted 26 November 2003 - 11:39 PM

Yeah, Sunn guitar cabs were a good example of that. Most, but not all, were "open backed" somewhat similar to Marshall. Now, I can't sit here and tell you which was more effecient, I have no idea. But I know it worked for them for a long time.


RF


#13 hotrod69

hotrod69
  • Member
  • Pip
  • 146 posts
  • Location:midwest,wis.
  • Original Name: hotrod69

Posted 27 November 2003 - 11:30 PM

heck,
all i was saying was thatthat cab 2x10 had fried speaker's... i said nothing about having a head !!!!

just so happens that this one does not have one just fried magnuts laugh.gif laugh.gif laugh.gif

"nut's" you get it ?
na ! me either, anywho my plan for it was to use it for kick back sound, so that i could hear what was going on wink.gif or maybe even to ad it to the stack...with 350w
kicking it should give me some more controlable sound ,,,right ???


h69


peace



Reply to this topic



  


0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users


Please consider donating to GuitarZone.com.
With more and more people using ad blocking add-ons for browsers, ad revenue has plummeted.
If you can spare even US$5 it would mean a lot to help pay for GZ's monthly server bill.
Thank you to all. Cheers! --Rob



Method #1: PayPal



Click 'Donate' above
to donate with any
major credit card or
existing PayPal funds.


E-mail on record with PayPal
[ ]



Method #2: Bitcoin


Option A )  Scan Bitcoin QR Code


Scan above box with mobile phone, or click...



Option B )  Copy and Paste Bitcoin Address

  13NA7exoZVPGBAxnKXcQAz35JQ5PvnhYDE  


Copy above address and paste into Bitcoin app...



Learn more about Bitcoin...