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Statement Regarding Legality of TabsWhat I have to say...


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#81 redhotchilipeppers4132

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Posted 18 July 2006 - 11:01 AM

Hello everyone, i just made an account for this site because of everything thats been happening in the guitar world of tablature. Two of my favorite sites have been closed. The sites were mxtabs.net (may have heard of it) and this site as well. Now i haven't been playing guitar for long so i'm not as experienced as someone who may be able to tab a song by ear. Thats why the closing of these tablature sites have been a shot to the heart to me cwy.gif lol but hopefully something will happen and we'll get our tabs back.

#82 Aituk

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Posted 18 July 2006 - 11:32 AM

Its not everday i get the chance to "express my views" on subjects like this, so il try and be brief and not go on and on

Now 1st thing, i know i'm a 1st time poster on these forums. In fact, this will probably be my last post aswell. I have emerged from the "silent guitar majority" to type the ###### that im typing now. Im the kind of person who just plays, doesnt talk or whine, just plays. Learns new riffs, scales, licks, everything like that, and now and again i even write my own. Wow.

Now, as many of you will point out, this isnt the 1st time a tab site has been closed down by the professional dickheads. Taborama was a good one, a good site that got shut down for no paticulary good reason, and im sure there are plenty more you people could name. I'm also sure there will be plenty more good sites shut down before this gets resolved. Heck, my drummer mate says it's almost impossible to find a decent drum tab on the net anymore, apart from a few sites which are under threat of closure anyway

To be honest, this kind of thing makes me sick. Really ######ing sick. I mean, its really quite hard for me to comprehend the kind of greed and selfishness these people in the NMPA/MPA have in themselves. What on god's green earth are these people thinking? How the hell do they think sharing tab on the internet is "copyright infringement"? Are they on pot? Or are they just getting paid so much it distorts their thinking?

This guys, is seriusly not cool. And it has to be stopped. Soon. I mean, like, really soon, or else we're gonna have little internet tab remaining. These guys will just continue to close down site after site after site, in accordance with "copyright law", which tabs sites are simply not breaking. And if they are, I don't know wtf the world has come to.

End
I could of written more, but im tired and want to play guitar smile.gif

#83 tdintbl

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Posted 18 July 2006 - 12:05 PM

It occurs to me that if the MPA and other such idiotic anal retentive organizations do win their case, they still lose anyways. If they win their vendetta against young musicians then in a relatively short period of time there won't be enough recording artists left alive to support their overblown idiocy anyways. The question becomes do we want to have an intervening time of no music before the musicians inevitably win out anyways. Heh, I know this doesn't help our legal case in any way shape or form, but I just had to appreciate the irony in the MPA's actions.

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#84 sunradio

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Posted 18 July 2006 - 12:13 PM

as a young guitar player, i believe music is all about freedom, the freedom to enjoy any type of music and to create, learn, and play music of your choice. it is pathetic that the government now decides to take away our freedom to share music with eachother just because they want to make money. this is bull###### and i say we try to regain our former freedom by boycotting, writing letters to them, whatever it takes.

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#85 Jiveturkey

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Posted 18 July 2006 - 12:22 PM

[quote name='blackened10' date='Jul 18 2006, 11:56 AM' post='2511841']
[/quote]
Jesus Christ
doesnt everybody


before you post on this topic... go around the forum and post and when u get more... say uve talked it up in 3 topics
come back and then we'll talk
better do it quick,
this site might not be hear

[/quote]
Why? What make his opinion any less relevant than yours or anyone elses?

#86 sherd

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Posted 18 July 2006 - 12:28 PM

Wouldn't it be a good idea to encourage kids to pick up a guitar and be able to learn the songs they hear. We may then still have real music in the future. All this is doing is stopping people learning. I have never heard such rubbish in my life. Here we are talking about people being denied the opportunity to learn music, not ripping bands off. Maybe they should concentrate more on the dj's who seem to be able to rip off music constantly and make money from it. What is the world coming to. Rock on !!! guitar.gif

#87 Jiveturkey

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Posted 18 July 2006 - 12:38 PM

Dj's get permission to use music before they do so, jeez are you stupid.


There's nothing down for tomorrows musicians anyway if you are all so dependant on the internet.

#88 tipsout11

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Posted 18 July 2006 - 12:42 PM

hey, this is my first post. i registered when i came to my favorite tab site, only to find this trash. is this some kind of a joke. ive been coming here for the better part of a decade to further my guitar playing abilities, and now this happens. who is gonna make music for the future. this is just steering kids away from music. isnt there a foundation called Save the Music or something, i wonder what they have to say about this. Rock and Roll can never die

#89 sherd

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Posted 18 July 2006 - 12:58 PM

QUOTE (Jiveturkey @ Jul 18 2006, 09:38 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Dj's get permission to use music before they do so, jeez are you stupid.


There's nothing down for tomorrows musicians anyway if you are all so dependant on the internet.



Perhaps the dj's in the charts have permission but you go to a club and fo you really think the dj spinning other peoples music has permission???

if we are all dependent on the internet aren't you too, why else would you be here???

#90 jumping_jack_splash

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Posted 18 July 2006 - 01:04 PM

the internet is a good way for beginners to learn

We're all going to be just dirt in the ground.

#91 Jiveturkey

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Posted 18 July 2006 - 01:05 PM

QUOTE (sherd @ Jul 18 2006, 02:58 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
QUOTE (Jiveturkey @ Jul 18 2006, 09:38 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Dj's get permission to use music before they do so, jeez are you stupid.


There's nothing down for tomorrows musicians anyway if you are all so dependant on the internet.



Perhaps the dj's in the charts have permission but you go to a club and fo you really think the dj spinning other peoples music has permission???

if we are all dependent on the internet aren't you too, why else would you be here???

They're playing records which have been released by the artist or their record company. Fair enough go to some shítty backstreet pub and you may get someone playing mp3's though.

No I'm not dependant on the internet, I come here to kill time. I very seldom use any tabs and only really do if I don't have time to work it out. Using the internet to further yourself is by no means a bad thing, hey it's just progress that we can. Just think though that all the guitarists we aspire to be like, they did it all on their own. Why should we be any different?

#92 grayscale

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Posted 18 July 2006 - 01:30 PM

I assume that the majority of the tabs posted are created by someone first listening to a piece, then tabbing out what they think is correct.

I'm no lawyer, but wouldn't that be considered Reverse Engineering, which is allowed?

Manufacturers of equipment do that all the time. It was a big deal when the first PC's came out in the 80's.
Just a thought.

#93 Jiveturkey

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Posted 18 July 2006 - 01:34 PM

QUOTE (grayscale @ Jul 18 2006, 03:30 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I assume that the majority of the tabs posted are created by someone first listening to a piece, then tabbing out what they think is correct.

I'm no lawyer, but wouldn't that be considered Reverse Engineering, which is allowed?

Manufacturers of equipment do that all the time. It was a big deal when the first PC's came out in the 80's.
Just a thought.

Please elaborate.

#94 in_repair

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Posted 18 July 2006 - 01:54 PM

QUOTE (tdintbl @ Jul 18 2006, 04:05 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
It occurs to me that if the MPA and other such idiotic anal retentive organizations do win their case, they still lose anyways. If they win their vendetta against young musicians then in a relatively short period of time there won't be enough recording artists left alive to support their overblown idiocy anyways. The question becomes do we want to have an intervening time of no music before the musicians inevitably win out anyways. Heh, I know this doesn't help our legal case in any way shape or form, but I just had to appreciate the irony in the MPA's actions.

It's going to start a butterfly effect.

They will effectively shut out all tabs on the net.
People will cry out in uprage and boycott the MPA and their represented sheet music.
People will have no way to teach themselves music, they will have to take lessons and pay to learn music.
As a result, far fewer people will learn music.
There will be fewer artists in 10 or so years.

And it keeps going.


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#95 Jiveturkey

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Posted 18 July 2006 - 01:56 PM

QUOTE (in_repair @ Jul 18 2006, 03:54 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
QUOTE (tdintbl @ Jul 18 2006, 04:05 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It occurs to me that if the MPA and other such idiotic anal retentive organizations do win their case, they still lose anyways. If they win their vendetta against young musicians then in a relatively short period of time there won't be enough recording artists left alive to support their overblown idiocy anyways. The question becomes do we want to have an intervening time of no music before the musicians inevitably win out anyways. Heh, I know this doesn't help our legal case in any way shape or form, but I just had to appreciate the irony in the MPA's actions.

It's going to start a butterfly effect.

They will effectively shut out all tabs on the net.
People will cry out in uprage and boycott the MPA and their represented sheet music.
People will have no way to teach themselves music, they will have to take lessons and pay to learn music.
As a result, far fewer people will learn music.
There will be fewer artists in 10 or so years.

And it keeps going.

So how do you explain all the artists from before the internet.


I society really that eager to quit when something isn't just handed to them?

#96 grayscale

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Posted 18 July 2006 - 02:09 PM

Well, the example that I'm thinking of is this (it's convoluted so bear with me):

Back in the 80's when IBM came out with the first PC's, they had a special chip called a CMOS that made the everything possible. The CMOS keeps information on the hardware setup, like what disk drives, video adapter etc.. Other manufacturers wanted to make an IBM clone but they didn't have rights to the CMOS. So they reverse engineered a chip that would do the same functions without licensing from IBM. That's how the PC clones came about. As far as I understand reverse engineering is allowed legally. I guess it's a "more than one way to skin a cat" type of thing.

You're taking a piece of music that you've heard and figuring out what tabs are required to replicate it. This, to me, is a form of reverse engineering. It's probably never going to be exact, but it's pretty close. It's not like you aren't buying a tab book in a store and posting it online. That would be copyright infringement.

#97 emenergy88

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Posted 18 July 2006 - 02:28 PM

i have one comment/question ... what is stopping us from going to other websites!?!?!? they are simply not allowing this website to recieve business

#98 tdintbl

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Posted 18 July 2006 - 02:49 PM

QUOTE (Jiveturkey @ Jul 18 2006, 02:56 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
QUOTE (in_repair @ Jul 18 2006, 03:54 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

QUOTE (tdintbl @ Jul 18 2006, 04:05 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It occurs to me that if the MPA and other such idiotic anal retentive organizations do win their case, they still lose anyways. If they win their vendetta against young musicians then in a relatively short period of time there won't be enough recording artists left alive to support their overblown idiocy anyways. The question becomes do we want to have an intervening time of no music before the musicians inevitably win out anyways. Heh, I know this doesn't help our legal case in any way shape or form, but I just had to appreciate the irony in the MPA's actions.

It's going to start a butterfly effect.

They will effectively shut out all tabs on the net.
People will cry out in uprage and boycott the MPA and their represented sheet music.
People will have no way to teach themselves music, they will have to take lessons and pay to learn music.
As a result, far fewer people will learn music.
There will be fewer artists in 10 or so years.

And it keeps going.

So how do you explain all the artists from before the internet.


I society really that eager to quit when something isn't just handed to them?


The TAB issue is a symptom, nothing more. I find the disturbing pattern in the MPA/RIAA/Etc. that is flat out through fear or stupidity or whatever, fighting to destroy or nullify all those things which help young musicians. Actively or passively they're out to get the young musicians and that only cuts their own throat. This cannot destroy the realm of music because they will destroy themselves long before then and once again music would flourish. It's all bloody ironic.

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#99 Hammer and Pull

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Posted 18 July 2006 - 02:59 PM

QUOTE (rbalch @ Jul 17 2006, 03:40 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
July 17, 2006

To all "Guitar Tab Universe" visitors:

The company which owns this website has been indirectly threatened (via our ISP) with legal action by the National Music Publishers' Association (NMPA) as well as the Music Publishers' Association (MPA) on the basis that sharing tablature constitutes copyright infringement. At what point does describing how one plays a song on guitar become an issue of copyright infringment? This website, among other things, helps users teach eachother how they play guitar parts for many different songs. This is the way music teachers have behaved since the first music was ever created. The difference here is that the information is shared by way of a new technology: the Internet.

When you are jamming with a friend and you show him/her the chords for a song you heard on the radio, is that copyright infringement? What about if you helped him/her remember the chord progression or riff by writing it down on, say, a napkin... infringement? If he/she calls you later that night on the phone or e-mails you and you respond via one of those methods, are you infringing? I don't know... but I would really like to know. If anyone has information on this, please email [email protected]

Apparently, the NMPA/MPA believes that the Internet may be on the foul side of the legality line they would like to draw here. For me, I see no difference. It's teachers educating students and covered as a 'fair use' of the tablature. The teachers here don't even get paid nor do the students have to pay this website to access the lessons.

An attack on this website is really an attack on every one of you who have told someone (in person, or via the written word, telephone, or e-mail) how you play a song on guitar. And who, especially among small websites, has the deep pockets to fight the NMPA/MPA? They use scare tactics while there is, in fact, no legal precedent on this matter (to the best of our knowledge). If you are interested in expressing your opinion to the NMPA/MPA, contact them via their respective websites. Please do not resort to vulgar language or insults.

Millions of people use the Internet to learn guitar, in one form or another. It appears the NMPA/MPA and their members do not want to support us and help us further our education. To you visitors from outside the USA or UK, can you find your favorite artists' "official sheet music" at your local music store? Even in the United States and United Kingdom, we often can not. The NMPA/MPA have a choice to make: either they support us as aspiring guitarists, or they choose to alienate their customer base. To date, not one sheet music publisher has contacted this website to either inquire as to our activities or to express interest in any type of dialogue or collaboration whatsoever. All we deserve is a cold, indirect, impersonal threat without any explanation? They should embrace new technologies or else become relics of the old economy.

Since I'm now 'worried' about working around tabs at all, I'm in a tough situation! Luckily, I'm fairly confident that if I alone listen to a song and then figure out how to play it by ear, I will then be able to enjoy using that knowledge to practice and improve my guitar playing skills. Is that what is necessary for everyone to do? Work these things out alone? What a sad situation. noani.gif

Sincerely,
Rob Balch

Manager of "Guitar Tab Universe"


If you would like to help out and join the effort to fight for our freedom to tab and share, please check out MuSATO.


#100 Hammer and Pull

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Posted 18 July 2006 - 03:11 PM

People who are against furthering knowledge are just plain"IGNORANT".
I understand that money is the "root of all evil".
But why condemn the people who don't have the money to purchase 8000 tab books ,so they can learn to play guitar.This site is a great place to get some help on a tricky song or just learn a new one. I personally have gone out and bought the official books from my favorite artists after getting a taste of the music from this site.GTU is an "Embassador of Music" if you ask me. What is wrong with sampling some of the music the world has to offer? The part that gets me is,half of the tabs on here are not even close to what the"official books" have written in them! How can it be copyright infringement if the person who wrote his/her interpretation of the song,is the owner of that tab?
Instead of condeming GTU,these organizations could be putting links up to be able to sell the original tabs .They could work with GTU ,and (do what they do best) increase their profits.

I know this is my first post.I just registered ,but I have been using GTU for a year and a half now.
Thanks for listening. I will be sending my opinion to the protesting organizations.
ROCK ON!!!



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