

harmonicawhat kind for a beginner?
#1
Posted 24 November 2009 - 10:29 AM
#2
Posted 27 November 2009 - 04:47 PM
Am I right in the harmonica I'm suggesting first of all?

#4
Posted 30 November 2009 - 06:43 AM
When buying a harmonica(s) remember... in most blues and rock you use a harmonica in the key of the 4th-position of the tune. (Like for blues in E that would be a key of A harp, G-blues a C-harp, A-blues a D-harp, etc. The style is called playing in cross-harp.
For country, pop and folk (Dylan, etc) just get the same key harp as the tune. (That's called straight-harp.)
I've done a lot of harmonica posts here in the past, from tips to tunes to techniques to equipment, etc. Here are some links to them (hopefully still working links). They're worth reading if you're starting to play harp.
<!--coloro:blue--><span style="color:blue"><!--/coloro-->EDIT:<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
No, none of the old links work any more. Just do a search of this Other Instruments forum using +dadfad +harmonica for your key-words in the search box at the bottom of the forum topic page.
<!--coloro:blue--><span style="color:blue"><!--/coloro-->RE-EDIT:<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
Okay I made a few URL changes (from the old guitartabs. cc to the newer guitarzone .com) to the links and most of them seem to work now...
<a href="http://www.guitarzon...howtopic=18394" target="_blank">A</a>
<a href="http://www.guitarzon...howtopic=12264" target="_blank">B</a>
<a href="http://www.guitarzon...howtopic=10858" target="_blank">C</a>
<a href="http://www.guitarzon...showtopic=8527" target="_blank">D</a>
<a href="http://www.guitarzon...howtopic=52274" target="_blank">E</a>
<a href="http://www.guitarzon...showtopic=7456" target="_blank">F</a>
<a href="http://www.guitarzon...showtopic=4642" target="_blank">G</a>
<a href="http://www.guitarzon...showtopic=1470" target="_blank">H</a>
<a href="http://www.guitarzon...pic=64104&st=0" target="_blank">I</a>
<a href="http://www.guitarzon...howtopic=60914" target="_blank">J</a>
<a href="http://www.guitarzon...howtopic=57340" target="_blank">K</a>
<a href="http://www.guitarzon...howtopic=51189" target="_blank">L</a>
<a href="http://www.guitarzon...howtopic=51701" target="_blank">M</a>
<a href="http://www.guitarzon...howtopic=51555" target="_blank">N</a>
<a href="http://www.guitarzon...howtopic=37377" target="_blank">O</a>
<a href="http://www.guitarzon...howtopic=40504" target="_blank">P</a>
<a href="http://www.guitarzon...howtopic=27684" target="_blank">Q</a>
<a href="http://www.guitarzon...howtopic=79125" target="_blank">R</a>
<a href="http://www.guitarzon...ic=144355&st=0" target="_blank">S</a>
Un-plugged is not the same as never-was-plugged-in-to-begin-with.
John Jackson -My Teacher and My Old Friend
When the roll is called up yonder he'll be there...
#6
Posted 02 December 2009 - 06:39 AM

On a more serious note, The Hohner special 20 you recommended is at a price I'd happily pay. Hope to pick one up sometime soon! I'll let you all know how it goes.

#7
Posted 02 December 2009 - 09:01 AM
A Lee Oskar is a good harp, but they're a little more expensive than a Hohner. They try to justify the cost by saying the reeds can be replaced when they wear out or blow, which they can, but most music-stores don't carry replacement reeds and they have to be ordered, etc. A pain in the azz when you're harp goes and you need it to work now. Not after a week or two.what about the oskar ones? and is the key of a harp as versatile as the key of c one is for different styles of play (blues, folk, country, bluegrass, country, jazz, whatever.
Two me it's not worth the trouble of replacing reeds on a Lee Oskar. Like I said, they're good harps (I have several), but more expensive. (The Lee Oskars I have are "special-key" harps like natural-minors, etc. Keys you don't find from other companies.)
Like I said, I prefer Hohners. Just my preference. Some people prefer Oskars. Oskars have slightly bigger holes than Hohners which, when learning, can make some of the slightly more advanced techniques like tongue-blocking, separation and octave-chording easier (when learning, not really once your already good at it. Suzuki makes decent ones too. Usually a little cheaper than both Hohner and Oskar. Just a matter of preference, and mine is Hohner.
As far as versitility. No particular key of harmonica is more "versatile" than another. Any will play in basically two keys... straight harp (folk, pop, country, etc) or cross-harp (blues, rock'n'roll rock, etc). There are other more advanced "positions" (as they are called) including adaptation to minors etc, but for all intents and purposes (especially for a beginner) any regular ten-hole harmonica will play in two keys. The actual key of ther harp itself (straight-harp) and that key's 4th position (IV) cross-harp.
So a key of C harp will play straight in C and cross in G (C-folk and G-blues). No more or no less versatile than say an A harp (A-Folk or E-blues)or a D harp (D-folk or A-blues), etc, etc. So versatility-wise I guess you could get the harp more of the tunes you do or want to do are in first. But as far as overall versatility, no key is more versatile than another.
Lots of guys will say get a C harp to learn on, because that's what someone told them when they were starting to learn (just as I was told when I started). C, being sort of a "musical-constant" note (like middle-C on a piano, the basis of generic scalular work around non-#/b notes, etc etc) is often used as a "learning key" not just on harp but other instruments as well. But there's no real reason otherwise to choose C.
Now if you have a few folk/country/pop tunes you wanna do in the key of C to start off with, or a few blues tunes in the key of G, then maybe a C-harp is okay for you. To me, learning-wise for a beginner, the easiest harp to learn to work with is a key of A harp. (Actually A#/Bb, but how many tunes will that work with?

Anyway, as far as learning, no key is more "versatile" than another. Maybe depending on the particular tunes you tend to do, but once you learn how to play you'll probably want to have other harps in other keys as well. A guy who plays harp frequently but not necessarily as his main thing can get by pretty well with only four harps... A, C, D and G (next would probably be an F, for C-blues and rock).
If you really get into playing harmonica, you'd want one for every key (12). Some keys also have a "low" or "high" tuned harp. Minor-tuned harps; chromatic harps (as opposed to diatonic) (the kind with the little push-lever), double-note harps (like a 12-string guitar compared to a 6-string), tremolo-harps, etc, etc.
Anyway, I hope this helps a bit. And there's a lot of stuff in those links above related to playing harmonica.
And Alex... if only they made that harp you linked above in the key of Eb I'd be sure to order one today!

Yes, the Special-20 is my favorite. I prefer plastic combs to wood (like the Marine Band) as they don't swell and contract when "subjected to moisture" (get spit-soaked )

In most normal situations, like playing clubs, dances, concerts, etc, harmonica is a real "crowd-pleaser" usually. And you don't have to play really great harp for them to love it. All you have to do is not play <i>bad</i> harp. (And sometimes even that'll go over. I've seen some truly horrible wah-wah-wah stuff played and people loved it.) (Usually drunk of course!

Anyway... Later!
Un-plugged is not the same as never-was-plugged-in-to-begin-with.
John Jackson -My Teacher and My Old Friend
When the roll is called up yonder he'll be there...
#9
Posted 03 December 2009 - 06:17 AM
thanks for all the info man. do you know anything about chromatic harmonicas? some website said that they have every note so they work for any key.
There are different kinds of chromatic harmonicas. Most of them still come in a specific key except some very expensive models that in effect "bundle" several sets of harmonicas together into one. (Think of something like a paddle-wheel with each "paddle" being another harmonica.)
Generally a chomatic harmonica will be in a specific key, the difference being the push-buttton will allow you to have the full range of chromatic scale notes for that key, whereas a diatonic harmonica omits several other notes (basically it has repeating blow-notes of the first, third and fifth of the major scale (the three notes which form a major-chord), drawing offers other notes from the key of the harp's major scale. (Actually every major scale note is found somewhere on the harp. Think kind of like black-keys on a piano but not all consecutive.) Other notes can be found using bends and over-blows. (Which you cannot do on a chromatic harmonica.)
The harmonica below allows you to play in six different keys. It costs around five hundred dollars.

You can spend much more, up to several thousand dollars. Even more if you want to expand its range into bass-notes, etc, etc. A fairly basic chromatic harmonica in a single key starts at around a hundred dollars.
You can of course get whatever you want. But if you were my student I'd advise you to get a ten-hole diatonic. Key of A.
Un-plugged is not the same as never-was-plugged-in-to-begin-with.
John Jackson -My Teacher and My Old Friend
When the roll is called up yonder he'll be there...
#10
Posted 04 December 2009 - 05:04 AM

#11
Posted 04 December 2009 - 06:46 AM
Is there a techincal name for that 6 harmonicas in 1 thingy-ma-jig? I called my preferred local music store and they didnt have any Special20s. I then called another local one and apparently they dont stock them here in England, But they can however order them. So popping down now n paying £30 n hopefully I'll have one here soon.
Alex, there are other Hohners pretty comparable to the Special 20 as far as shape, tone, playability, etc. Basically they <i>are</i> Special 20s, but have been re-named (with maybe a minor cosmetic change, like black-oxided finish, etc) to appeal more to a "niche" musically. And usually a bit higher priced. For all intents and purposes, the Hohner Pro Harp is like a Special 20 (just a couple dollars more); and there are a few "signature" harps (the Steve Tyler comes to mind) which is usually ten or more dollars added on to Special 20's price. (Price gouging, like with most "signature" instruments.). So the Pro Harp is pretty close to the Special 20.
Now the 20's plastic combs are my preference. Some people prefer the wooden combs of the Marine Band. (Or the, of course, little more expensive "Blues Harp" which is just a Marine Band for two bucks more.)
I would shy away from the cheaper Hohner harps like the "Blues Band" or the "Old Standby" or "Hot Metal" which basically are the eqivelent to Hohner what Epiphone is to Gibson, cheap knockoffs. These cheaper harps can be okay, but usually a little tougher to draw smoothly or bend. And so especially for a beginner, I recommend a better quality easier to learn on harp. (It's not like a guitar and getting a beginner a new $3000 Gibson instead of a $250 Epiphone to learn on. In harps the difference is five bucks or twenty bucks, no major cash outlay!)
Those "cheap harps" are a decent bargain, once you know how to play reasonably okay and can pretty much compensate for the diffence in their quality when you play (just as a good guitarist can make even a crap-guitar sound good). Especially for more obscure keys or as "back-ups." In addition to my complete 12-key set (actually I have two complete sets) of good harps (and my specialty harps... chromatics, tremolos, octaves, high and low tuned, etc) I have quite a few cheap harps (the five dollarish ones) because they're handy to have around. (I have a few here in my desk drawer, a couple in my car's glove compartment (for harp-emergencies <img src="http://www.guitarzon...IR#>/laugh.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="

But for learning, a better harp is just easier to work with.
Oh, that particular harmonica above is callled a "sextet" (six keys). They also have an octet, etc. That one's a Hohner. Hohner and other companies make lots of harps that are extremely specialized. There are harps (similar to that sextet configuration above) with so many rows of harps it's the size of a small wine-cask. Or orchestral harps two or three feet long. You can get up into the thousands of dollars for some of these more exotic specialty harps.
Un-plugged is not the same as never-was-plugged-in-to-begin-with.
John Jackson -My Teacher and My Old Friend
When the roll is called up yonder he'll be there...
#13
Posted 10 December 2009 - 01:46 AM
* These diatonic scale harmonicas are for us musical dummies. The diatonic scale is the do-re-me-fa-so-la-te-do scale that you may have learned in chorus at school. It would include only the white keys on a piano in you were playing in the key of C.
* There are chromatic scale harmonicas which would include both the black and the white keys or all the notes in an octave. These require much more knowledge of music. However, you can play songs in all the keys on just a C harmonica.
* You do not have to know as much about music theory with the diatonic scale harmonica. But you do have to own a separate harmonica for each major key in which we plan to play. We could own as many as 12 harmonicas, though I think you will find that five or six will cover just about every song you will ever play. You can easily get by with just a C and a G harmonica if you are not going to be playing with a band.
* You should have at least two harmonicas to get the maximum benefit from this software. You should have a diatonic scale harmonica in both the keys of C and G.
* It is important that you keep in mind that you can play any song, regardless of the key in which it was composed, on any harmonica. If you only own a harmonica in the key of A, then every song you play will be in the key of A, even if it was composed in G or C. And if you pick up a harmonica in the key of D and play the same numbering system, you are playing the song in the key of D. You do not have to relearn a song for each key.
#14
Posted 10 December 2009 - 07:07 AM
The post above, some okay information, some correct-but-misleading information and some incorrect information. The diatonic scale (as found on the harmonica) isn't the do-re-mi scale (although it is contained in the complete theoretical do-re-mi scale.
As far as getting by with only a C and G harp like he said.... I don't know what kind of band that would work with except maybe a folk or country band with a very limited repertoire. True, you can find particular notes from any key's scale on a key of C chromatic, and so you could use those notes in a tune in any key, but they would not necessarily work very well or be in the order you want them or sound very pleasing. (Think about it. There's a reason WHY they make chromatic harmonicas in different keys.)
I don't know who the person who posted above is. Might be a top-notch pro (although it really doesn't sound like it) or somebody who's been playing a little while, maybe knows their way around a harp a bit and now is trying to promote their site and learning-method. I really don't know.
Follow whatever advice you choose. Briefly, here's my... whateveryouwannacallit... resume. I've been playing harp over thirty years, electrically and acoustically, in both gigging bands as well as solo. My teachers include (in-person teachers, not some video or something) Snooky Prior, Howard Levi, Harmonica Phill Wiggins, Joe Filisko, Madcat Ruth, Curtis Butler, John Hammond Jr., Lazy Lester and Paul Geremia (widely acknowledged in the harp-biz as the finest rack-harp player alive). I've played with Sunnyland Slim, Bluesboy Odell, Uncle Jessie White, Michael Roach and many others, plus with several of my own bands and solo. I've designed and made electrified-harps, special harp-mics and effects and custom racks. Etc, etc.
So I'm not the greatest harp-player around by any means, but I'm not too shabby either and some people seem to think I do okay.
Audio Link
<a href="http://www.soundclic...songID=8460038" target="_blank">
Later.
Un-plugged is not the same as never-was-plugged-in-to-begin-with.
John Jackson -My Teacher and My Old Friend
When the roll is called up yonder he'll be there...
#17
Posted 26 July 2010 - 07:44 AM

I don't play in a band regularly anymore, maybe stand up with a harp with somebody once in a while, but mostly just a little rack stuff now. Harp-playing has a bit of that use-it-or-lose-it thing to it. You still know the licks, and it wouldn't take long to get that together again, but that wind-thing is a little different. For me anyway, because I used to "play hard" (which quite a few truly good players say isn't good technique). (I'd go through A and D harps like toilet-paper!

I still love harmonica, but I don't take it as "seriously" as I used to!
But, thanks!
"Things that I used to do. Lord, I jus' can't do no more..."
-Eddie "Guitar Slim" Jones
Un-plugged is not the same as never-was-plugged-in-to-begin-with.
John Jackson -My Teacher and My Old Friend
When the roll is called up yonder he'll be there...
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