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I am perplexed as to what I should have done...Topic not designed to encourage negative feelings against Muslims....


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Poll: What should I have done? (3 member(s) have cast votes)

Should I have signed the petition?

  1. Yes (1 votes [33.33%])

    Percentage of vote: 33.33%

  2. No (2 votes [66.67%])

    Percentage of vote: 66.67%

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#1 w00dy

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Posted 08 August 2016 - 09:43 AM

Ok I, as no doubt many of you guys and girls are, am signed up to all these social movement petition sites and one of the petitions asked me to sign one a Muslim girl had started asking for the basketball federation to allow ladies wear hijabs as they have a covered head health and safety rule. So that more Muslim women will play sport. I dislike the women head covering rule in all religions. Pisses me right off if I'm honest, so instinctually I said pass and didn't sign it. But now I'm all it might encourage greater freedom for Muslim girls... If the men in their social group start seeing that it's not turning them all in to "god hating lesbians who won't take their sexist bullshit anymore" over night. So like where do you guys stand on this? I was just gonna pm sixy coz he's got a healthy take on stuff like this (and I may be blinded by my own religious views) but then o thought fuck it I'll ask everyone

https://www.change.o...lQXXfndN1iU25S6
^thats the petition if you wanted to sign it

Edited by w00dy, 08 August 2016 - 09:44 AM.

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#2 richey

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Posted 08 August 2016 - 09:47 AM

Unless there is a specific and justifiable reason for the ban on head coverings (I've no idea; enlighten me if you're a basketball fan) then I'd support lifting it. I've got no problem with women wearing hijabs. 


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#3 Herr Rararr

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Posted 08 August 2016 - 10:06 AM

There's no 'should' sign it - it's down to your opinion and feelings on the matter.  If you can't throw your full support behind something, for whatever reason, you don't have to just to keep up appearances.

 

I couldn't give a damn about people covering themselves up, it can get tricky when you look at how willful it is, but in terms of hijabs, sure, why not.


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#4 w00dy

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Posted 08 August 2016 - 10:33 AM

My problem is that these girls are conditioned to wear these things, socially. It's a shackle to put them in their place. Like women not being allowed to speak in the first Christian churches... Some even still not allowing women to preach.

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#5 Herr Rararr

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Posted 08 August 2016 - 11:32 AM

That's an incredibly broad statement and defining the bridge between faith and gender equality is an almost impossible idea.  It makes me uncomfortable to be the person saying 'We should let these women free, they are imprisoned in their faith, our cultural values are worth more..."

 

When I worked in Altrincham I new a couple of girls who wore the headscarf and they were proud to do so.  Similarly I knew some who discarded it as soon as they were able.


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#6 w00dy

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Posted 08 August 2016 - 12:34 PM

If it's her choice to wear one, why can't she not wear one?

The thing I'm finding difficult is can you say some kind of sexism is acceptable? Coz I don't think I can. But then again some poor girl can't play sports and I'm saying "but it's for your own good, love"

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#7 Herr Rararr

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Posted 08 August 2016 - 12:40 PM

If it's her choice to wear one....    That logic is somewhat skewed, especially in a hypothetical where we are doing all the talking for someone and it boils down to us presuming we're right.   No, I'm not saying sexism is acceptable - I'm saying that the same action is different depending on what filter you look at it through.  Through a religious filter it's not sexist, it's devout - you're also presuming that this person is being forced to wearing it, with no knowledge of the motivation behind it.


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#8 Dave C

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Posted 08 August 2016 - 12:47 PM

My problem is that these girls are conditioned to wear these things, socially. It's a shackle to put them in their place. Like women not being allowed to speak in the first Christian churches... Some even still not allowing women to preach.

Spot on.



#9 Herr Rararr

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Posted 08 August 2016 - 12:49 PM

In the same way that girls are conditioned to wear dresses and boys aren't?


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#10 w00dy

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Posted 08 August 2016 - 02:10 PM

Yeah to a degree but if a bloke wants to wear a dress or a girl wants to wear a football strip I personally couldn't give a fuck. Have away at it. If a girl wants to wear a veil or cover her head for cosmetic fashion, I'm fine with that. If her peer group say she has to or shame. Fuck that shit. No?

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#11 sixgunsound

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Posted 08 August 2016 - 03:33 PM

imagine when euros showed up here in north america, by way of example. none of the women could even show their ankles. It took a long time to bring education to women, but that inevitably brings the downfall of weird religious traditions (like hating women or forcing them to wear hijab). maybe it wont be the first generation of immigrants, maybe not even the second. my grandmother can still sing gaelic lullabyes. education and integration. if we drive a societal wedge between us and them it breeds resentment and whoops everything that has happened in france for the last few years. 


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#12 w00dy

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Posted 08 August 2016 - 03:40 PM

I k

That's an incredibly broad statement and defining the bridge between faith and gender equality is an almost impossible idea.  It makes me uncomfortable to be the person saying 'We should let these women free, they are imprisoned in their faith, our cultural values are worth more..."
 
When I worked in Altrincham I new a couple of girls who wore the headscarf and they were proud to do so.  Similarly I knew some who discarded it as soon as they were able.


I know what you're saying. two girls used to get on my bus for college and they'd both wear head coverings made from pretty material and as part of their ensemble - you know, dead girly. I used to think "that's alright, it's not about putting them down." It was them claiming some personal empowerment. You know what I mean?
I got really mixed feelings/don't know how I should feel tbh. I guess that's why I'm asking you lot

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#13 Herr Rararr

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Posted 08 August 2016 - 04:20 PM

imagine when euros showed up here in north america, by way of example. none of the women could even show their ankles. It took a long time to bring education to women, but that inevitably brings the downfall of weird religious traditions (like hating women or forcing them to wear hijab). maybe it wont be the first generation of immigrants, maybe not even the second. my grandmother can still sing gaelic lullabyes. education and integration. if we drive a societal wedge between us and them it breeds resentment and whoops everything that has happened in france for the last few years.


For the sake of argument, you want complete cultural homogeny? Jeans and polo shirts?
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#14 Major Major

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Posted 08 August 2016 - 07:25 PM

Iiiiiif I understand the question then here's my two cents:


What do they want is my chief thought. If they want them they should be allowed to have them all things being equal. If later they feel them unnecessary or restrictive and don't want them, I'll support them taking it off. I'm not one to push anyone towards my view of freedom cause I know it only applies to my view of the world. I'm all for anyone pursuing whatever direction of happiness or expression or self-fulfillment they want as long as it doesn't unduly infringe on the freedoms of others.

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#15 Dave C

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Posted 08 August 2016 - 11:05 PM

Women of these oppressive religions should be encouraged to abandon traditions that symbolize that oppression. Just my opinion.


 if we drive a societal wedge between us and them it breeds resentment and whoops everything that has happened in france for the last few years. 

However, this is also true.



#16 w00dy

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Posted 08 August 2016 - 11:29 PM

Women of these oppressive religions should be encouraged to abandon traditions that symbolize that oppression. Just my opinion.


 if we drive a societal wedge between us and them it breeds resentment and whoops everything that has happened in france for the last few years. 

However, this is also true.

 

i couldn't agree more. but is that girl not already doing that by playing sport, going to university and encouraging others to do so? i mean when do we say one person is doing enough... I'm gonna sign it. the inward change is more important than a girl having to wear a scarf on her head. like sixy says this shit takes time. 


Edited by w00dy, 09 August 2016 - 12:13 AM.

   ------->Numbers<-------

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#17 w00dy

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Posted 09 August 2016 - 12:16 AM

thanks for the convo men, them silly girls just don't have big enough brains to make the understandings


Edited by w00dy, 09 August 2016 - 12:16 AM.

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#18 sixgunsound

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Posted 09 August 2016 - 07:32 AM

haha patriarchy at its finest


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#19 Dave C

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Posted 10 August 2016 - 07:33 AM

 

Women of these oppressive religions should be encouraged to abandon traditions that symbolize that oppression. Just my opinion.


 if we drive a societal wedge between us and them it breeds resentment and whoops everything that has happened in france for the last few years. 

However, this is also true.

 

i couldn't agree more. but is that girl not already doing that by playing sport, going to university and encouraging others to do so? 

 

Yeh, so who's doing the ironing and washing the dishes.



#20 w00dy

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Posted 10 August 2016 - 09:19 AM

It's a war of attrition! He who can live with being dirty longest vs she who can nag the most effectively

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