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#21 Jay Kay

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Posted 23 January 2017 - 06:40 AM

Seriously...Is there a feminist out there that isn't a psychoanalyzing, ######y, misandrist? I have yet to meet a feminist who is enjoyable to be around. 

 

And no, I'm not a misogynist. 

 

I apologize in advance if this starts any trouble...I was rubbed the wrong way last night...Every feminist I have met seems to be looking for something to get offended by. Oh, and male feminists are my favorite. Captain save a ho douche bags. Get the ###### outta here.

 

No, I don't think I'm better than you because I have a dick between my legs. I think I'm better than you because you are ######ing moron. 

 

If this offends you, I truly am sorry, because it is not my intent...but goodness dick, give me some insight if this does strike a nerve.

 

I was never raised to think that men are better than women or should be treated differently. I was raised to treat people with respect, and I've done a damn good job at doing so. But ######, I feel like you can't even breathe around a feminist without them getting offended by something and feeling like they have to over analyze the situation. Yeah yeah, I'm misogynistic and I don't even know it. ###### off.

 

Don't apologize for offending anyone!

The world has no safe spaces. If this offends someone, then it is up to them to either change your mind or make a better case against you. 
 

Also, for the record, you don't come across as a misogynist. You come across as someone stating that every encounter you've had with a self-proclaimed "feminist" has been sour, so you're naturally asking "are they all like this?". 


Edited by Jay Kay, 23 January 2017 - 06:47 AM.


#22 sixgunsound

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Posted 23 January 2017 - 07:45 AM

A few years ago I worked on a campaign for a women's shelter. A few weeks into it a lady passed a note to one of my fundraisers. To paraphrase:

 

"Last Christmas didn't work out like I expected. I was attacked by my boyfriend, he came at me with a knife and cut me. I escaped to the balcony; he followed. I ended up jumping three floors onto concrete, breaking my hip, and spending the holidays in the hospital. I spent the next many months rehabilitating. Thanks for everything you do". 

 

And the only reason I bring this up isn't to say that all men are going to beat their wives, attack their girlfriends, kill their lovers: I bring it up because 7 out of 10 perpetrators of sexual violence are someone the woman knows. Considering that, imagine what someone she doesn't know could do. 

 

That's what's going through the mind of many women as they walk the streets alone. You're ten steps back and you know you're not a rapist - but she doesn't. Solidarity with the ladies, whether they come off as "bitchy" or not. If anyone has ever had the right to be bitchy...


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#23 Jay Kay

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Posted 23 January 2017 - 07:59 AM

While I sympathize with your point, it is a failure, not in cause, but in messaging. If these activist groups could rally behind a single coherent message, it would be far more digestible. There was a time when feminism=equality was true. Not so much anymore. It is "Men and Women are identical in abilities, strengths, and weaknesses... and check your white priv... and religious women fuck you..... and guilty until proven innocent for all alleged rapists.... also climate change!...ect"

 

It has become much like BLM, all outrage and arbitrary stat quoting, but no coherent mobilization to enact or inspire systematic change. 



#24 Derf!

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Posted 23 January 2017 - 08:06 AM

Well, one can hardly say "every" encounter. I mean, here we all are and this shits been pretty civil thus far. I'm inclined to agree with Jules here, it speaks more to that specific person rather than the movement itself. That you've encountered so many of these rabble rousing people is remarkable but not altogether unbelievable and I can see how that might obscure ones perspective on the matter. I wouldn't say you were a misogynist, sir, but at the same time I can see how one might jump to that conclusion without examining the hows or whys because emotion has blurred the vision, as it were. I feel like that's more of a "everybody" thing rather than a feminist thing, though. My guess for this lady you've met was that she was a psyche major and that's what the evening was defined by rather than anything else. 

 

And yet, I do feel like I've seen this "intentional offense" behaviour before in my own people, straining so hard to conjure a personal attack where none exists. Like, if you were white and asked them if they wanted to go camping on the weekend, they might flip a lid and say something to the tune of "Oh, because we should all live in Tipi's, right? Man, fuck you and your whitey bullshit." One might then conclude that we're all hyper-sensitive, snap judgement people. But it is not so. It is simply that some of us take things very seriously, often to ones own detriment when blinded by "the feels" as the younguns say. The dark side of passion, I reckon. To be so well moved that you don't consider what direction you're going in etc. Again though, that's to do with the person rather than. 

 

Bear in mind, I'm a goddamned hermit so uh...y'know. What the fuck do I know. 



#25 sixgunsound

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Posted 23 January 2017 - 08:20 AM

While I sympathize with your point, it is a failure, not in cause, but in messaging. If these activist groups could rally behind a single coherent message, it would be far more digestible. There was a time when feminism=equality was true. Not so much anymore. It is "Men and Women are identical in abilities, strengths, and weaknesses... and check your white priv... and religious women fuck you..... and guilty until proven innocent for all alleged rapists.... also climate change!...ect"

 

It has become much like BLM, all outrage and arbitrary stat quoting, but no coherent mobilization to enact or inspire systematic change. 

 

And while this isn't inaccurate, it must be pointed out that you add this criticism on top of a layer of disenfranchisement already suffered by an, admittedly, non-homogeneous group. Well, if those pesky ladies had one message, I'd be more inclined to listen to their message. 


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#26 spacecrumbs

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Posted 23 January 2017 - 08:23 AM

A group which apparantly shouldn't be allowed safe spaces in order to create this one message.



#27 Jay Kay

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Posted 23 January 2017 - 08:54 AM

what one message? And who is denying them their freedom of speech? What the fuck is a safe space, being agreeable and nurturing regardless of personal beliefs? Sounds to me if your failure is messaging and your solution is to "just give us this because", it is only on course to create additional strife and resentment from opposing groups. If you want to change public perception, you're tasked with being that messenger and the responsibilities that come with it. We also used to forcibly masturbate women to cure hysteria, until someone said "hmm this isn't right, here's a better solution supported by better logic". The World was once flat too. If the dissenters simply felt entitled to their safe space and told people to get on board just cuz, it would be a far darker world. 



#28 Jay Kay

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Posted 23 January 2017 - 08:57 AM

 

While I sympathize with your point, it is a failure, not in cause, but in messaging. If these activist groups could rally behind a single coherent message, it would be far more digestible. There was a time when feminism=equality was true. Not so much anymore. It is "Men and Women are identical in abilities, strengths, and weaknesses... and check your white priv... and religious women ###### you..... and guilty until proven innocent for all alleged rapists.... also climate change!...ect"

 

It has become much like BLM, all outrage and arbitrary stat quoting, but no coherent mobilization to enact or inspire systematic change. 

 

And while this isn't inaccurate, it must be pointed out that you add this criticism on top of a layer of disenfranchisement already suffered by an, admittedly, non-homogeneous group. Well, if those pesky ladies had one message, I'd be more inclined to listen to their message. 

 

my point being, don't call it feminism then. Feminism = equality.... Sounds like Congress. We want to pass this wonderful spending bill for entitlements because its a great cause, but also give my specific district x amount of no strings attached money just cause I helped draft the bill. Then the peopple who vote against it are tagged as hating folks that need certain entitlements. Um nope, im just against giving your district x amount of money just cuz. 



#29 sixgunsound

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Posted 23 January 2017 - 09:08 AM

 

 

While I sympathize with your point, it is a failure, not in cause, but in messaging. If these activist groups could rally behind a single coherent message, it would be far more digestible. There was a time when feminism=equality was true. Not so much anymore. It is "Men and Women are identical in abilities, strengths, and weaknesses... and check your white priv... and religious women ###### you..... and guilty until proven innocent for all alleged rapists.... also climate change!...ect"

 

It has become much like BLM, all outrage and arbitrary stat quoting, but no coherent mobilization to enact or inspire systematic change. 

 

And while this isn't inaccurate, it must be pointed out that you add this criticism on top of a layer of disenfranchisement already suffered by an, admittedly, non-homogeneous group. Well, if those pesky ladies had one message, I'd be more inclined to listen to their message. 

 

my point being, don't call it feminism then. Feminism = equality.... Sounds like Congress. We want to pass this wonderful spending bill for entitlements because its a great cause, but also give my specific district x amount of no strings attached money just cause I helped draft the bill. Then the peopple who vote against it are tagged as hating folks that need certain entitlements. Um nope, im just against giving your district x amount of money just cuz. 

 

 

It sounds like you're being triggered. Take me at face value, we've successfully disagreed before! 

 

It sounds like the same optics battle with ACA vs Obama Care. Who doesn't want some Affordable Care? But fuck that Obama guy, let's get rid of his care. 

 

Equality? Yeah that sounds great! Feminism? Fuck that shit right off. 


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#30 Jay Kay

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Posted 23 January 2017 - 09:21 AM

*TRIGGERED* lol

 

no, just reiterating my point, I don't mind disagreeing at all. I don't want to be misinterpreted as arguing against feminism, I am arguing for better more coherent messaging.

 

Issues under the brand of feminism are not inexistent by any means. Here's a silly example of my own short comings and what I learned I need to work on.

 

The girl I'm with now came home from work and began describing a guy at work that keeps harassing her and how she was getting really uncomfortable with it. I immediately interrupted angrily and said I'll take care of it. She then finished her story in which it ended that she handled it herself and completely like a boss. I can see how this kind of behavior makes women feel like men think they are inferior. Sometimes its hard to shake that, and I admit I'm guilty of this often. 



#31 spacecrumbs

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Posted 23 January 2017 - 09:22 AM

what one message? And who is denying them their freedom of speech? What the fuck is a safe space, being agreeable and nurturing regardless of personal beliefs? Sounds to me if your failure is messaging and your solution is to "just give us this because", it is only on course to create additional strife and resentment from opposing groups. If you want to change public perception, you're tasked with being that messenger and the responsibilities that come with it. We also used to forcibly masturbate women to cure hysteria, until someone said "hmm this isn't right, here's a better solution supported by better logic". The World was once flat too. If the dissenters simply felt entitled to their safe space and told people to get on board just cuz, it would be a far darker world. 

 

You suggested a singular message. No one is even talking about freedom of speech. No, that's not what a safe space is, google it.

 

Wtf?



#32 Jay Kay

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Posted 23 January 2017 - 09:26 AM

"a place or environment in which a person or category of people can feel confident that they will not be exposed to discrimination, criticism, harassment, or any other emotional or physical harm."

 

I'm sorry, but I take this as a place where no one will argue. I bring in freedom of speech simply because your right of freedom of speech does not entitle you to silence someone else's right.



#33 spacecrumbs

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Posted 23 January 2017 - 09:31 AM

Kinda wanted to make the triggered comment but I fucking hate that shit.

 

Like, what the fuck is wrong with people making jokes about triggering PTSD? I don't give a shit whether you think that people abuse the concept. Trauma is real. Every time you make this shitty joke, someone who has a valid trauma is going to feel less able to express their real need for safety.



#34 Jay Kay

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Posted 23 January 2017 - 09:37 AM

I don't mind the triggered thing, I'll admit I get overly passionate. I absolutely despise the concept of safe spaces... at least my interpretation of what they are.

Well yeah triggered in that context is shitty lol

#35 Jay Kay

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Posted 23 January 2017 - 09:47 AM

 

 

 

While I sympathize with your point, it is a failure, not in cause, but in messaging. If these activist groups could rally behind a single coherent message, it would be far more digestible. There was a time when feminism=equality was true. Not so much anymore. It is "Men and Women are identical in abilities, strengths, and weaknesses... and check your white priv... and religious women ###### you..... and guilty until proven innocent for all alleged rapists.... also climate change!...ect"

 

It has become much like BLM, all outrage and arbitrary stat quoting, but no coherent mobilization to enact or inspire systematic change. 

 

And while this isn't inaccurate, it must be pointed out that you add this criticism on top of a layer of disenfranchisement already suffered by an, admittedly, non-homogeneous group. Well, if those pesky ladies had one message, I'd be more inclined to listen to their message. 

 

my point being, don't call it feminism then. Feminism = equality.... Sounds like Congress. We want to pass this wonderful spending bill for entitlements because its a great cause, but also give my specific district x amount of no strings attached money just cause I helped draft the bill. Then the peopple who vote against it are tagged as hating folks that need certain entitlements. Um nope, im just against giving your district x amount of money just cuz. 

 

 

It sounds like you're being triggered. Take me at face value, we've successfully disagreed before! 

 

It sounds like the same optics battle with ACA vs Obama Care. Who doesn't want some Affordable Care? But fuck that Obama guy, let's get rid of his care. 

 

Equality? Yeah that sounds great! Feminism? Fuck that shit right off. 

 

I like to argue any point that I feel strongly about. Arguing weeds out extremism and I'm willing to soften my stance if my side just doesn't hold up. I definitely softened my stance on the gender reassignment argument because you had a more convincing argument. 



#36 sixgunsound

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Posted 23 January 2017 - 10:19 AM

 

 

 

 

While I sympathize with your point, it is a failure, not in cause, but in messaging. If these activist groups could rally behind a single coherent message, it would be far more digestible. There was a time when feminism=equality was true. Not so much anymore. It is "Men and Women are identical in abilities, strengths, and weaknesses... and check your white priv... and religious women ###### you..... and guilty until proven innocent for all alleged rapists.... also climate change!...ect"

 

It has become much like BLM, all outrage and arbitrary stat quoting, but no coherent mobilization to enact or inspire systematic change. 

 

And while this isn't inaccurate, it must be pointed out that you add this criticism on top of a layer of disenfranchisement already suffered by an, admittedly, non-homogeneous group. Well, if those pesky ladies had one message, I'd be more inclined to listen to their message. 

 

my point being, don't call it feminism then. Feminism = equality.... Sounds like Congress. We want to pass this wonderful spending bill for entitlements because its a great cause, but also give my specific district x amount of no strings attached money just cause I helped draft the bill. Then the peopple who vote against it are tagged as hating folks that need certain entitlements. Um nope, im just against giving your district x amount of money just cuz. 

 

 

It sounds like you're being triggered. Take me at face value, we've successfully disagreed before! 

 

It sounds like the same optics battle with ACA vs Obama Care. Who doesn't want some Affordable Care? But fuck that Obama guy, let's get rid of his care. 

 

Equality? Yeah that sounds great! Feminism? Fuck that shit right off. 

 

I like to argue any point that I feel strongly about. Arguing weeds out extremism and I'm willing to soften my stance if my side just doesn't hold up. I definitely softened my stance on the gender reassignment argument because you had a more convincing argument. 

 

 

The problem with espousing the extreme of any position as a matter of course in order to soften your own views is that you might find that you agree with yourself too often. 


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#37 Jay Kay

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Posted 23 January 2017 - 10:35 AM

I only acknowledge that my internal viewpoint is extreme if I naturally feel strongly about it. I wouldn't represent my guess of what is the most extreme version of it, that seems counterproductive. I say it because I already believe it, but am opening softening that view should anyone make a compelling argument. 



#38 sixgunsound

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Posted 23 January 2017 - 10:59 AM

Don't worry, I just wanted to sound quotable. For the record doing what you've said is how I became a Communist. Careful. 


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#39 richey

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Posted 23 January 2017 - 11:12 AM

I'm a feminist. Just saying. 


My anger is a form of madness
And so I'd rather have hope than sadness

#40 Jay Kay

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Posted 23 January 2017 - 11:29 AM

Don't worry, I just wanted to sound quotable. For the record doing what you've said is how I became a Communist. Careful. 

I was once a strong believing Catholic Warhawk Republican lol 

 

Oh how age humbles you. 





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